Swap 5F-SE for 3S-GE

[shimric]

Originally Posted by mr220v

Its not really a swap if its the same motor coming out as whats going back in.

um., ya it is. You're swapping in another motor, just happens to be the same type.

[TomsMR2]

Originally Posted by Mach2

I uh, dont want to turn this into a 2nd gen vs 3rd gen debate, but I just got a swap. I was on an extremly tight budget *read broke cheap w/a family, I mean if you got 3500+ to spend on the motor and swap it yourself to save the rest then yeah thats the best way to go.

But if you dont have a bunch of expendable money laying around a boosted motor is a good platform to start with regardless of the gen. My goal is 340 wheel on the high end which is very attainable without breaking the bank.

I just think there are more options then go get a third gen, not everyone can afford the bestest out there.

not all of us care about trying to hit x horsepower.. id take a 170whp stock 1mz any day, all day long over a 300whp 4cyl anything. im not saying its better, im saying thats personally what i would take, every time, without question.

[Mach2]

Originally Posted by TomsMR2

not all of us care about trying to hit x horsepower.. id take a 170whp stock 1mz any day, all day long over a 300whp 4cyl anything. im not saying its better, im saying thats personally what i would take, every time, without question.

ok one thing, are we talking all swaps or 3rd vs 2nd? I ask becuase the only reason I commented was the whole horse comment. I have no problem admiting that I was a little like " man whats that wrong with a 2nd gen?".

If you were refering to gen vs gen, to that I say if its not about HP then why not go for a BEAMS or a 3sge or hell a remanned slightly modded 5SFE?

If its about a stock 4cyl vs everything else then of course there are as many options as dollars you can shell out, but if you are looking at it from a broke person's perspective of performance vs dollar aspect, give me the best option under 3K if you arent doing the swap yourself.

*Im not trying to change your mind or anything, I just want to know what is soooo bad about that motor so far its been a lot of fun for me

[TomsMR2]

its a turbo 4 cyl. i hate turbo 4 cyls nothing really to do with gen2 vs gen3.. i just think gen2 is worse, but i dont really like/want either.

again.. its not bad; i personally dont like it.. and never will. probably 90% of owners wont agree with me, and that too is fine.

to that I say if its not about HP then why not go for a BEAMS or a 3sge or hell a remanned slightly modded 5SFE?

because its not a v6 nothing drives like a 3+L v6 except a 3+L v6.. well maybe supercharged 4's, but that project kind of fizzled. im actually quite content with my modded 5sfe.

[mr220v]

Originally Posted by shimric

um., ya it is. You're swapping in another motor, just happens to be the same type.

If its the same type of motor, it called a motor replacement, not a swap.

When I go to do an oil change, I don't say "be right back, I'm going to swap my oil".

[shimric]

I hope you know you're being a technical anal douchebag right now. Dude no one cares what the proper name is... We know what he's talking about

How old are you?

[mr220v]

Originally Posted by shimric

I hope you know you're being a technical anal douchebag right now. Dude no one cares what the proper name is... We know what he's talking about

How old are you?

No, whats known as an engine swap and an engine replacement are two very different things. Somebody refered to the 5sfe replacement as the easiest "swap" and easier than a 3sge "swap". I just pointed out that replacing a 5sfe with another 5sfe is obviously going to be the easiest option. You don't have to go rounding up special parts or finding stuff they never sold in this country. You also don't have to fab special parts, cut firewalls, or reweld motor mounts, so the distinction needed to be made. These are things you often have to do for the various engine "swaps".

No one else seemed to take exception to that observation and distinction, not even Toms.


So what the hell is your problem?

[Mach2]

Originally Posted by mr220v

So what the hell is your problem?

[shimric]

Originally Posted by mr220v

So what the hell is your problem?

Whatever the OP decides to do he is going to have tons of help from all of us.

[mr220v]

Normally i'd take any gen2 3sge over a 5sfe. And while you can make the celica motor work, I get the impression that the needed research for a 3sge swap hasn't been done.

Buy the wrong stuff, don't get the correct wiring harness, and 6 months later, you still don't have it running. Plus, i'm not a big fan of having a swap done by a mechanic. Having a non-standard motor is just going to confuse most mechanics who might work on the motor in the future. What you learn during the swap is key to keeping the car running.

So, find the cleanest 5sfe you can. Steer away from the cheapest one since you probably won't be able to tell if its any good or not. Put a few performance parts on, and call it a day.

If you still want to go 3sge YOU MUST FIND A GEN2 MR2 3SGE WIRING HARNESS. Try to get a swap set if you can.

[mr220v]

If you want to go 3sge, here is your best choice:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/11433...ayphotohosting


That swap set looks complete. $750 is a good price. I'd ask for pics under the oil cap.

Make up your mind fast because these don't last long and don't come up that often.

[Tred]

Originally Posted by TomsMR2

i personally couldnt justify removing one crappy 4cyl na motor for another crappy 4cyl na motor. a 3sge mr2 is still a slow mr2.

with i/h/e it will beat a stock mr2 turbo, if you have never drivin one than dont open your mouth. and that "crappy" motor your talking about shares a bunch of parts with the turbo...

[Tred]

Originally Posted by TomsMR2

i personally couldnt justify removing one crappy 4cyl na motor for another crappy 4cyl na motor. a 3sge mr2 is still a slow mr2.

with i/h/e it will beat a stock mr2 turbo, if you have never drivin one than dont open your mouth. and that "crappy" motor your talking about shares a bunch of parts with the turbo...

anyway, i'm so glad i went 3sge, its a night and day differnce, there is no better bang for the buck, you will not get 50 extra hp that pulls to 7K rpm for less than the 3sge swap.

[runabout93]

^ why didnt you post a link to your comparison write-up... here. I think that would be extremely helpful. I know it got me thinking hard about this swap.

Anyway, I say do a 3sge swap, then later you can build-it-up. Seems pretty easy to get any peformance item for that engine... and then you can turbo it. Seems like a no-brainer to me. If my 5sfe ever dies on me.. I would go that way. Unless I had the money to do a V6 or gen3 3sgte or even a beams swap.

BTW: swap means: to exchange one thing for another... not exchange one thing for something completely different. And replace means: to provide a substitute or an equivelant in the place of. I think either term works for this scenario. Maybe replace works better for a 5sfe to 5sfe.. but, you can still say I swapped out my 5sfe for a working 5sfe. Okay, I've gone crosseyed. LOL

[airbornesquelch]

What is the difference between a 3sfe and a 5sfe?

[runabout93]

Originally Posted by airbornesquelch

What is the difference between a 3sfe and a 5sfe?

Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_S_engine

The 5s is the newer block in that series. Basically, the 5s is the stroker version of the 3s. That's is why the 3sge/gte have the 2.0L and the 5sfe has the 2.2L.

[mr220v]

Originally Posted by runabout93

^ why didnt you post a link to your comparison write-up... here. I think that would be extremely helpful. I know it got me thinking hard about this swap.

Anyway, I say do a 3sge swap, then later you can build-it-up. Seems pretty easy to get any peformance item for that engine... and then you can turbo it. Seems like a no-brainer to me. If my 5sfe ever dies on me.. I would go that way. Unless I had the money to do a V6 or gen3 3sgte or even a beams swap.

BTW: swap means: to exchange one thing for another... not exchange one thing for something completely different. And replace means: to provide a substitute or an equivelant in the place of. I think either term works for this scenario. Maybe replace works better for a 5sfe to 5sfe.. but, you can still say I swapped out my 5sfe for a working 5sfe. Okay, I've gone crosseyed. LOL

Symantics probably don't matter too much. "Swap" has just become one of our buzzwords that refers to going with a different engine. Say, i'm going to do a V6 swap. We had a similar fight over calling the caldina beams motor the greytop, and the altezza beams motor the blacktop. Both of them have black valve covers.

Anyway, if you ultimately want a 3sgte, I wouldn't start with a 3sge. There are just enough differences to make the change a problem. The biggest of which are the lower compression pistons and the need to tap the block for oil lines. Most likely the motor would have to come back out of the car.

I guess you could leave the compression at 10:1, and maybe run the oil hoses off of a filter adapter, but then you still have your electronics to deal with. The last 3sgte runs 9:1 compression stock, so it could probably be done safely, though the 3sge only has cast pistons.

The difference in the swaps is about $1000-$1200. If you want a 3sgte, just save a little longer and avoid the conversion hassles.