Info on my Webcam 5sfe Cams

[mrturrari]

I received my Webcams in the mail a couple of days ago and thought I would share some of the info I have gathered during the process of ordering them. The grind I received is a slightly different one that they felt would be better for my setup. I may end up wishing I had gotten the 101 grind but we'll see. It's the 763 grind which looks very similar to the 294 but slightly less duration and more lift. Here is what I have been able to measure on them:

Webcam 763
Intake (The exhaust cam I am told is the same as the intake cam)
Lift 0.351"
Lobe centers 110*
Duration @ 0.010" 264*
Duration @ 0.020" 240* (Verified with Webcams)
Duration @ 0.040" 224*
Duration @ 0.050" 216* (Verified with Webcams)

They were also kind enough to give the specs of the 96 gen II stock cams used to make these. These should be the same as all 93-99 5sfe's.

Intake
Lift 0.0316"
Duration @ 0.010" 252*
Duration @ 0.020" 218*
Duration @ 0.040" 200*
Duration @ 0.050" 194*

Exhaust
Lift 0.0319"
Duration @ 0.010" 272*
Duration @ 0.020" 224*
Duration @ 0.040" 204*
Duration @ 0.050" 200*

I also attempted to measure some 91 cams I have lying around but with the smaller lobes it is more difficult to be exact. Probably a margin for error of +/- 4* but don't quote me on these as they could be way off. It does give a ballpark though.

Intake
Lift 0.289"
Duration @ 0.010" 256*
Duration @ 0.020" 224*
Duration @ 0.040" 208*
Duration @ 0.050" 204*

I was unable to measure the exhaust cam because it is not possible to put a degree wheel on it while in the head.

Webcam 101

Intake and Exhaust
Lift 0.350"
Lobe centers 110*
Duration @ 0.010" ~272*
Duration @ 0.050" 229*

[Mister2.2]

Good info, thank you for posting. What needs to be done to put these cams in a 94 head? Are they plug and play or do I have to change anything? What was your total and when do you plan to run these and are you going to dyno? Thanks

[TomsMR2]

is 050 the standard measurement of duration? most cams list a duration, and then duration at 0x0.

the rated 216 at 050 is still a mild cam. should be much better, but im still dying to see someone run a hot cam set.. i really think the head will do it.

you'd need huge shims to put them in a 94 head.

[mrturrari]

Originally Posted by Mister2.2

Good info, thank you for posting. What needs to be done to put these cams in a 94 head? Are they plug and play or do I have to change anything? What was your total and when do you plan to run these and are you going to dyno? Thanks

The grind is independent of the cams so the same grind can be made for 91-92 cams or 93+ cams. These I have are the 93+ which will only fit the gen 2 5sfe, 93-95 MR2s, so yes they will drop right into a 94 head with just the normal shim adjustments. Fitting them may require a couple of things. One, you need to check coil bind on the valve springs to be sure you have at least 0.0360" of travel in them and if you don't then you will need new valve springs. Second as with all new cams they will need to be shimmed although you can probably use some of your existing shims because the base circle doesn't change with welded cams.

Total was way too much... about $650 after all the shipping and everything. I went directly through Webcams though. If you are looking for the 294 or 101 then places like http://www.importperformanceparts.net should get you a better deal.

Originally Posted by TomsMR2

is 050 the standard measurement of duration? most cams list a duration, and then duration at 0x0.

the rated 216 at 050 is still a mild cam. should be much better, but im still dying to see someone run a hot cam set.. i really think the head will do it.

Different manufactures measure differently so it is really hard to compare unless you can actually measure them. Advertised duration can be at 0.001", 0.010" or 0.020" so that doesn't tell you much and companies like HKS give you that plus 0.040"(1mm). Most American companies will give you duration at 0.050" which is probably a better indicator of actual flow duration as the valve is open 1mm at that point.

Yeah these in my book are still on the milder side of things but probably a little hotter then a 294 because of the lift and ramp. They seem to have similar specs to the HKS 264s put in the 3sgte, 224* @ 0.040" and almost 9mm lift. Then again the 294s have a similar duration at 0.050" and those don't move your power band nearly as much as with the HKS 264s. I guess we will see when I get them installed. If I don't like them then I can always sell them and try again.

you'd need huge shims to put them in a 94 head.

These are gen 2 5sfe cams so they use normal shims that you get from Toyota. One of the reasons I went with Webcams was that just grinding a set with this much lift and duration on a 93 would require some really fat shims. Those who have 91-92 heads have it much easier since you can grind down 93 cams.

[TomsMR2]

also, apparently late model rav4 cams are HUGE and can be ground to hell. oregon camshaft recently ground some cams for a guy with 9.0 or 9.5mm of lift. he had a 91 head and they tried 93 cams, but they fell short. the rav4 cams had the extra meat.

[mrturrari]

That's strange... are you sure they were looking at 93 cams? These cams I had done were reportedly from a 96 Rav4 and they are the same as the 93s. Also the part numbers show the same for 93-95 MR2 5sfes and 96-00 Rav4 3sfes.

[TomsMR2]

thats what oregon camshaft said.. sounded weird to me as well ill try to get the guy to chime in.

[KaDuWin]

I have seen those but it says that they are designed for the 92-95 5SFE engine, is that a typo or are they actually different? Can I use them in my 91 5SFE? I have been thinking about getting those and rebuilding my engine for some more power.

[CrawlingEye]

Originally Posted by TomsMR2

thats what oregon camshaft said.. sounded weird to me as well ill try to get the guy to chime in.

That would be me. I've never seen these boards before, but I stumbled across them while doing a google search.

I'm clearly making a late response to this but:

Yes, the late model 3SFE cams from a rav4 fit on a 5S head. I would not suggest trying to install them directly. The gearing of the cams is identical, but the rav4's use a much larger base circle, which offers more meat to grind and keep very close to a stock (5S) base circle size.

My cams are spec'd: .370/.390 lift and 220/228 duration

I believe this places them as the most aggressive 5S cams to date?

Here's a picture of the lift:



I hope this helps.

[CrawlingEye]

I'll also add that the head and cams are from a '91 (it's Marco's old head, if anyone recalls his build).
The original cams were ground too low to feasibly shim, which is why it was decided to use the 3sfe cams.

I had quite a bit of additional work done to the head beyond the cams but it was not a '91 head with '93 cams being used.

[mrturrari]

Originally Posted by CrawlingEye

Yes, the late model 3SFE cams from a rav4 fit on a 5S head. I would not suggest trying to install them directly. The gearing of the cams is identical, but the rav4's use a much larger base circle, which offers more meat to grind and keep very close to a stock (5S) base circle size.

Just to clearify, like you said you cannot install them directly into a rev1 5sfe (91-92) but you can into a rev2 5sfe (93+). The later 3sfe and 5sfe are pretty much the same head on a different block. I have run the 3sfe cams in my rev2 5sfe and now I have some rev2 5sfe cams in my 96 3sfe head on the same rev2 5sfe block.

Originally Posted by CrawlingEye

My cams are spec'd: .370/.390 lift and 220/228 duration

I believe this places them as the most aggressive 5S cams to date?

I like that lift. I have a set of rev2 cams ground down to fit a rev1 5sfe in my garage. They are 0.350" lift and 300 AD but they have never been installed. One of my future projects.

[mrturrari]

I should tell you guys too that I got some new cams put in a few months back. I went and got the 101 grind done on my original stock cams from the rev2 5sfe and put them in. Let me tell you these are the ones to have if you want to make a 5sfe scream. You need to raise the redline to really use the power but it pulls hard from 5000-6000rpms. And the rev2 5sfe ECU idles them just fine too. The only thing holding it back now I believe is the narrow, longer runners of the stock intake manifold and the slightly too small TB.

[Mark_Dorman]

^How much did the grind cost you?

[CrawlingEye]

Originally Posted by mrturrari

Just to clearify, like you said you cannot install them directly into a rev1 5sfe (91-92) but you can into a rev2 5sfe (93+). The later 3sfe and 5sfe are pretty much the same head on a different block. I have run the 3sfe cams in my rev2 5sfe and now I have some rev2 5sfe cams in my 96 3sfe head on the same rev2 5sfe block.

If the later 5S cams are identical to the late model 3S cams, I'm unaware. I just went with what the shop had available and what worked. Based on the '91 cams being smaller, they ground too low. When we used the late model 3S cams, there was more meat and thusly we achieved nearly a stock base circle. No complaints nor curiosities on my part after that.

and yes, the lift is massive on the cams. The duration isn't as much as the 101 cams but the lift is greater. We're not looking for a huge redline so I didn't want to go too crazy on duration.

I still have a lot of work left to do with the car before I start trying to pull great numbers. Primarily the fact that I have been too busy to play with it as of late and it still needs a FPR and new injectors.

Some additional info on what was done with the head (post-marco purchase).

• ARP 3sgte head studs, with the cam-gear bolts cut down to fit the 5s
• 33.5mm intake valves
• multi-angle valve job
• cleaned up the porting
• milled down and lapped
• shimless bucket conversion
• Crower custom 55/165 lb valve springs

another thing you guys may enjoy hearing. none of this work is inside of an mr2 nor a celica body. yes, that's right, it's a camry (gen3).

[mrturrari]

Originally Posted by Mark_Dorman

^How much did the grind cost you?

I purchased them through Import Performance Parts - Import Performance Engine & Racing Parts. They should have the price posted.

Originally Posted by CrawlingEye

If the later 5S cams are identical to the late model 3S cams, I'm unaware. I just went with what the shop had available and what worked. Based on the '91 cams being smaller, they ground too low. When we used the late model 3S cams, there was more meat and thusly we achieved nearly a stock base circle. No complaints nor curiosities on my part after that.

and yes, the lift is massive on the cams. The duration isn't as much as the 101 cams but the lift is greater. We're not looking for a huge redline so I didn't want to go too crazy on duration.

I still have a lot of work left to do with the car before I start trying to pull great numbers. Primarily the fact that I have been too busy to play with it as of late and it still needs a FPR and new injectors.

Some additional info on what was done with the head (post-marco purchase).

• ARP 3sgte head studs, with the cam-gear bolts cut down to fit the 5s
• 33.5mm intake valves
• multi-angle valve job
• cleaned up the porting
• milled down and lapped
• shimless bucket conversion
• Crower custom 55/165 lb valve springs

another thing you guys may enjoy hearing. none of this work is inside of an mr2 nor a celica body. yes, that's right, it's a camry (gen3).

Good stuff. It's nice to see someone else doing a more aggressive 5sfe setup. You should see a nice kick of torque at about 4500rpms from that intake cam and then that exhaust cam will help open it up a lot in the 5500-6500rpm range. You should consider doing the bottom end work to spin it past 6300rpms if you haven't already because those cams will be able to use it. And of course bigger injectors and tuning.

Which shimless buckets are you using? That is one thing that I have considered but never done. With that much lift though I think it is a wise choice.

[CrawlingEye]

The entirety of head work was done by ChrisK (cams aside, which were done as I previously mentioned by Ken).
The buckets (as I recall) are JDM TRD Altezza buckets, the year/generation I'm uncertain of. You'd be best served to shoot him an e-mail for the exact information.

As for the bottom end, the engine was recently shortblocked but I haven't had the time to do much else, it's pretty much stock at the moment. The head was milled for compression, which I believe the estimates are around 10-1 (so a .5 increase). I haven't touched the rods, but it is something I'm planning to do in the future. I wouldn't mind throwing some 3s rods in there and putting some 11-1 or so pistons in.

As for the injectors, I was looking into the 3sge injectors (light green, I believe they are) and I still need to purchase an adjustable FPR for it. It's been one of the things preventing me from getting the project really moving along.