Considering buying a '91...how does this one sound?

[statokinetics]

First post! Anyhow, I'm looking for an SW20--don't really need the nicest one, just want one that runs alright at least; I'm fine with imperfections if the price is right. This one I found on craigslist caught my eye:

THIS IS A NICE CAR IT GOT 23000.00 MILE'S ON IT IT WAS WELL TAKEING CARE OF IT RUNS LIKE IT NEW .. IT HAVE 2.2 MOTOR IN IT NON TURBO...

Things that struck me about the listing:
-Ricer stickers
-Probably doesn't matter but LARGE CAPITAL LETTERS don't comfort me
+Copious amounts of large pictures, especially those detailing imperfections (seems to indicate honesty)
?23,000 miles is highly improbable; more likely the odo's rolled over from 123k, or even more likely 223k

Stuff I'm planning to do
1. VIN check
2. Get it checked by a mechanic
3. Check service records
4. Check fluids
5. Look for rust

6. Seat covers hiding anything?
7. Check engine bay

Besides that, what should I look out for? I'm guessing it is in all actuality a 223k mi. car, which would worry me BUT it is an automatic + n/a, so there's less to go wrong. What feeling do you guys get from this car? I might be missing something in my cursory analysis of that listing, so please tell me if I am. If not, I'll be joining your ranks pretty soon, haha (and it's about time anyways; I love these cars).

EDIT: Bought Now I officially join your ranks

[Gairloch]

It's at 237,064 it looks like. The odometer doesn't have a tenth mile wheel on it, that's on the trip meter. Either he's a moron or he's trying to defraud people.

You saw that it's an automatic, right? Any pictures of the engine bay?

I'd look for rust underneath. Looks like theres a little on the pinch rail and that spot on the rumble strip would need to be dealt with. The paint looks like it's in reasonable condition. There are covers on the seats so you might want to find out what's underneath.

I would definitely have this car checked out thoroughly by a mechanic before buying it.

[statokinetics]

Originally Posted by Gairloch

It's at 237,064 it looks like. The odometer doesn't have a tenth mile wheel on it, that's on the trip meter. Either he's a moron or he's trying to defraud people.

You saw that it's an automatic, right? Any pictures of the engine bay?

I'd look for rust underneath. Looks like theres a little on the pinch rail and that spot on the rumble strip would need to be dealt with. The paint looks like it's in reasonable condition. There are covers on the seats so you might want to find out what's underneath.

I would definitely have this car checked out thoroughly by a mechanic before buying it.

Hey, thanks for the response--I definitely should get it checked out by a mechanic. And yes, I'm aware it's an A/T but that's actually just fine for me right now--while I would prefer a 5spd, I can convert later on when I actually decide to start modifying the car (I'm planning to convert to a v6 anyways down the line though the 5sfte route sounds very tempting). In fact, I can't remember where I heard it, but an A/T with a turbo (if I go the 5sfte route) is nice because you can keep boost pressure instead of having to have a BOV for shifts. I don't know if that's true or not, but if it is, it'd help with an NA-T conversion. If I do an NA-T conversion, I'll run relatively low boost and leave the motor unmodified but get nice turbo parts first (like nicer injectors/fuel pump/megasquirt EFI/etc) before I even think about screwing around with higher boost, and even then, I'd definitely do engine work before running more than a little bit of boost (which on a 235k engine might not be the smartest thing in the world to do). But yeah, I just want to get familiar with SW20s with this car and really just learn from it, and if I can get it to go fast well hell that's just a nice benefit

[f300]

I dont like the looks of this car... the odometer looks more like 237,064miles? you can see it in the bigger shot of the odometer... +scratches and dings, steering wheel cover (hides the age)
+ its an auto
Hold out buddy

[shimric]

Wheres the price?

[statokinetics]

I picked it up for 1500 a while back (as you'll notice, this thread's two weeks old), so I'm very satisfied considering the price. Checked for rust, didn't find any, and it seemed to pull just fine. It's not a mint condition mr2 by any means, but it's in running condition and cosmetically only has that single small ding near the right headlight. This car is going to be a project car anyways, because I don't really have too much of a need for a DD in college so any components that aren't working too well can just be replaced by better aftermarket upgrades haha. Now, it's just a question of 3sgte vs v6. I'm leaning towards the 3vz-fe.

[shimric]

v6

All day. All night.

[statokinetics]

That audi 3.6L v8 is also looking very very enticing; I'm just concerned as to how it would fit in, as apparently only a getrag fiero transmission would work, but IIRC those were pretty stout.

[carcrazyguy]

Is that car the one from NY?
If so, word is that it had a worn steering rack and front suspension issues and 4 dead struts. It looks identical. However, at $1500 it would be OK as a driver I guess.

However, dumping $$ into it makes no sense:

Why bother converting it to 5 speed? The conversion would be cost nearly the value of the car. Just buy what you want when you get the money.
Heck, a 5 speed NA is only slightly less slow than the automatic. BTW, why would you even consider dumping a V6 in that car, which would probably cost more than the car is worth once again - as this would run at least $2000 by the time the engine swap is complete (not counting the 5 speed). Adding a turbo? Ever heard the term money pit?
Also, would it be right or would it be a continuous headache getting the bugs out? What's the point?

In other words, if it is too slow for you now, just buy something that isn't.
Heck, I paid $2800 for a very nice 90 300ZX a while back, turn key - needed nothing...and still kept my MR2...so I had the best of both worlds....0-60 in 6.4, top speed 148 (C&D) from the Z and 30+ MPG in my MR2. Having both was nice.

I guess that is way too logical however, as I could have sold either or both cars at any point and got all of my money back (and did, actually making a little) while a worn out $1500 2XX mile MR2 with a $2000 V6 upgrade and a $1000 five speed conversion is worth, well...maybe $2500 to the right person...and if you will notice the forums, incomplete and unsuccesful conversions (which is a lot of them) go for pennies on the (initial) dollar.

They must really be putting a lot of Mercury in the water these days...

[statokinetics]

Originally Posted by carcrazyguy

Is that car the one from NY?
If so, word is that it had a worn steering rack and front suspension issues and 4 dead struts. It looks identical. However, at $1500 it would be OK as a driver I guess.

It's from NJ.

However, dumping $$ into it makes no sense:

Buying cars as investments makes no sense monetarily. Doing modifications to any cars makes no sense monetarily.

Why bother converting it to 5 speed? The conversion would be cost nearly the value of the car.

If you would spend $1500 for an N/A tranny + labor, I have a bridge to sell you.

Just buy what you want when you get the money.
Heck, a 5 speed NA is only slightly less slow than the automatic. BTW, why would you even consider dumping a V6 in that car, which would probably cost more than the car is worth once again - as this would run at least $2000 by the time the engine swap is complete (not counting the 5 speed).

3vz front clips are not expensive--only labor is. You are also wrong about the costs--a v6 swap almost assuredly will cost more than $2000 to do right. However, either way gives just as fulfilling results. If you do the labor yourself, you acquire invaluable skills in the process as well as a relatively cheap, mid-engined, six cylinder 2 seater sports car. The costs of the swap are well worth its benefits to me. If you are worrying about money, engine swaps are not for you. Hell, if you are worrying about money, modifying cars is not for you.

Adding a turbo? Ever heard the term money pit?
Also, would it be right or would it be a continuous headache getting the bugs out? What's the point?

There's this amazing thing we've got that lives in our heads. It's called a brain. It lets us do things that make us happy.

In other words, if it is too slow for you now, just buy something that isn't.
Heck, I paid $2800 for a very nice 90 300ZX a while back, turn key - needed nothing...and still kept my MR2...so I had the best of both worlds....0-60 in 6.4, top speed 148 (C&D) from the Z and 30+ MPG in my MR2. Having both was nice.

If consumerism makes you happy, congratulations. The 300zx is an incredible car in its own right, but it is not an MR2. There are a multitude of reasons to do a V6 swap into an MR2, and I truly pity you if you cannot bring yourself to understand any of them.

I guess that is way too logical however, as I could have sold either or both cars at any point and got all of my money back (and did, actually making a little)

You apply logic where it does not apply. Can you place your attention on what makes (or saves) you the most money instead of what makes you the most happy? Maybe, but I can't. I certainly am not going to let ignorance let me pay more than is necessary, but I certainly won't let fear stop me from doing something I want to do: build up an MR2.

while a worn out $1500 2XX mile MR2 with a $2000 V6 upgrade and a $1000 five speed conversion is worth, well...maybe $2500 to the right person...and if you will notice the forums, incomplete and unsuccesful conversions (which is a lot of them) go for pennies on the (initial) dollar.

When did I ever say I intended to sell this car after finishing it as a project? This car is a project that will extend my knowledge and increase my skill set, and when completed, bring me a car that has fulfills all the criteria that I have for a car.

They must really be putting a lot of Mercury in the water these days...

When you resort to ad hominem attacks, you lose what little respect people have for you. I appreciate constructive criticism, but every part of your post had critical flaws. Maybe 10% of your post had anything remotely redeeming in value (and this is only because of what you warned about in the top of your post). Please try again--or, better yet (because you clearly do not have the ability to formulate a coherent argument), I'll rewrite your post with what you should have said:

If this car is the NY one (here is where you should link to the car in question instead of being unspecific), then you should watch out for a worn steering rack, front suspension issues and four dead struts because that car looks identical to this one and has all of these issues.

Also, you may want to reconsider the 5spd and/or V6 swap(s). A cost/benefit analysis may reveal them costing more time and/or money than you may want to spend. Alternatively, you could sell the car instead of doing these swaps--I advise this because it would probably be cheaper as far as time and money are concerned and would offer roughly the same performance.

[carcrazyguy]

Maybe you didn't get the gist of my previous argument, but if the car in question was a super nice MR2, then I would feel "somewhat" differently about it. I don't think you got that (or ignored that for sake of your argument).
We will surely always disagree on the following, but I still feel that it doesn't make sense to invest (at least) $2000+ and many hours of your life in a $1500 car, no matter how many emotional angles you throw at it.

Think about it...even after the drivetrain changes are done on the car in question, it would still be a northern MR2 with a worn out suspension / steering rack and slightly wrecked in the front and a slew of miles. What part of that do you disagree with?

That being said, do you deny that it would literally take thousands of dollars and time to make that car into more than a relatively fast yet otherwise worn car? As it sits, it is a nice looking, likely reliable daily driver. Even if you must do a swap for personal reasons, why not start with the low mileage, nice car? I am not knocking the car in question in any way, as my current MKII is virtually the same thing. I am simply knocking the concept of bathing it with money and time better invested elsewhere.

To clarify the other attack you made, cars are an investment to some people, but not in the sense you interpreted (or tried to twist my statement into).
What I was trying to convey is that someone can buy a pretty nice car now easily for what they would have in that car, and be enjoying it upon purchase, and can get their money back should they develop interest in something else or have life changes, etc. Also, starting with a nice car in the first place means you can build from there if desired, rather than attempting to build a nice car from a shaky starting point. I'm off my rocker?

Keep in mind, sometimes people's lives change in a way where they need a different car, they go broke, or they simply grow out the whole JDM / NOPI thing (for lack of better term). Then they have a project car to move that is still, say, a $1500 car at heart which is quite difficult to sell for many reasons, the common one being such cars are often immobile or have an unresolved glitch. This happens more than not. Sorry to be the messenger, as you somehow missed this trend. Maybe you interperted my post as if it was to you only.

I don't plan to keep any car forever, Just like many people I like to upgrade cars occasionally, as interest fades in a current vehicle or one may see something they like more. This being the case, throwing irreversable money and time at a car that is a sub-$2000 car is the true defintion of a money pit in logical terms. Once again, if the thread were about starting with a super-nice MR2, it would be a different ball game...although that is still not my cup of tea, obviously.
What I am trying to say: you can't argue the actual cost versus return (even if you can ignore it). Since I am not knee deep into such an endeavor, I see this concept without emotional goggles from the outside in. Don't get me wrong, I wear / wore "many a goggle" in my life...just not on this topic.

FWIW, when I had an RX7, I used to hear your arguments verbatim on the RX7 forum as to why owners would spend $4000 for a complete engine pull and rebuild on a blown up FC's, rather than buy a good car for less than half that investment. This scenario is not much different than the discussion, in principle.
Also, talk to the black hood / coffee can exhaust Honda guys who also are also always dreaming and scheming to make a fast car out of the tired car they already have (someday) instead of simply buying one, turn key. Bet they could also pick my post apart with the exact same things you said, and they would believe what they said too (with the same conviction). Then again, picking any post apart out of context is easy, as I am sure you will do again.

So maybe you feel it is justifyable to throw money at that car just because, and maybe that is true for you - but just check out recent Ebay auctions or dig through MR2 and similar import forums for all of the incomplete / unsuccessful engine swap dream projects selling for less than the stock car likely was intially, not to mention all of the other aquired parts they usually throw in. This is fact, sorry you wanna' shoot the messenger.

How about this wacky concept: Drive the $1500 MR2 for a while, resell it for at least $1500 at any point if needed or keep it as a nice looking daily driver from now till doomsday. In the meantime, save (or get a loan for) a nice turbo MR2 (or a gaggle of other fast cars). In the long run a smart buyer can have two cars for the price of the self-made one. Bet you can pick that logic apart too somehow. Not enough invaluable mechanical experience with this technique? Heck, service every last thing on both cars if you just gotta work on something in the garage in your spare time. I will be out there living it up, however. This we will not agree on...and that's life.

Regardless, having 2 turn-key sports cars, one of them nice and pretty fast, and the other a guilt-free good looking daily driver is not such a bad idea IMO. I've been doing this for a decade (but I am stupid 80% of the time) but that other 20% is some killer ****!

[Gairloch]

^^ I can appreciate where you're coming from but believe it or not there are other intelligent ways to go about it. You don't necessarily know all of his motivations.

Speaking as someone that has chosen to go a route similar to the OPs I find your preaching to be a bit insulting. Some people find value in experiencing the process of restoring a car and or modding it to be more than it was originally. Financial outlay isn't always the only consideration.

[mr2greasemonkey]

yeah, what he said ^.

[driftmonster]

Welcome.

Nice car.

[carcrazyguy]

Originally Posted by Gairloch

^^ I can appreciate where you're coming from but believe it or not there are other intelligent ways to go about it. You don't necessarily know all of his motivations.

Speaking as someone that has chosen to go a route similar to the OPs I find your preaching to be a bit insulting. Some people find value in experiencing the process of restoring a car and or modding it to be more than it was originally. Financial outlay isn't always the only consideration.

When you are "old" like me you will see what I was talking about. For now just assume I am an asshole. Heck, I expected no less than getting attacked since the current teen trend is to swap this, stagger that, and modify anything possible thanks to all of the tuner shows and drift this and that. I realized there was a chance I was walking into a bee hive.
My breaking down the actuality of cost versus return on the car in question is surely offensive or insulting to those people doing such things, but I am still just the messenger in a sense. Guess it was not PC to say it however.

Me saying that money is technically thrown away when investing in junk cars, and that it makes more sense to buy a nice car initially (Toyota can build their cars better than we can) surely seems like an insult to anyone that didn't go this route.

Also, the OP said he would not sell his car at any point, so it doesn't matter how much money is dumped? Funny, I don't ever (and can't) see a middle aged man in a JDMed, engine swapped MR2 rollin' on 18's, or whatever, lol. Yes, he will outgrow this too, just like anyone does. My first relatively decent car was a early 90's Celica at age 18...and yes I too thought I would roll in it until the world ended...I look back and laugh now. I was ready to repaint it and do this and that to it until I was luckily talked out of it. I am sure I will get an argument out of this, but call me at 30 or 40 and tell me what your interests are and what you are driving.

But maybe it is not as fun for you or the OP to go out and buy a nice car initially? That's cool for you guys...but my time is better spent going on dates, concerts, traveling, or actually driving the cars I love, etc...
**** unecessary garage time. When you are much closer to 30 than 20 you will see that you don't want to have a nice car one day, next year, or eventually or possibly, lol. Your time becomes at a premium and tinkering and projects become a lesser priority. As I said b4, I was exactly where you were not too long ago...otherwise I would not have said anything.

So if you wanna dump thousands in a rough car for the satisfaction of it that is fine...that simply leaves the nice ones for us "old timers".
So in theory, Maybe you are right, I should not "preach" yet should encourage endless investment and modification done to $1500 cars. Holla' at me in 10 years however.

[DenverMR2]

Him doing a swap in a car that barely cost anything makes more sense than getting a 10000 dollar mr2 and attempting a swap. Basically what he got was a rolling shell that he can use to learn more about cars and try a V6 swap.