Camry s51 5th gear set

[mr220v]

So I've been playing around with the online gear ratio calculator found here:

Gear Ratio Calculator

There has been some discussion about how best to reduce rpms at highway speeds. Some have suggested fitting a camry final drive (which would affect all gears).

Why couldn't I just use a camry s51 5th gear set? Basically all the parts shown in this picture (except this is a c52):



From the calculator, with the s51 5th gear set, I'd be reving 3570 at 80mph. Basically, whatever you're revving now with your s54, add another 9mph. Probably good for 4-5 mpg

[Servin]

Hey are u using the BEAMS tranny cause that has a lower FD 3.94 aswell

[mr220v]

I'm using the beams tranny, but it actually still has the 4.176 final drive. It was only euro gen3 3sge s54's that had the lower FD.

I like gears 1-4 the way they are. Well, I like 5th too, it's just this might be a way of helping fuel economy.

[mr220v]

Come to think of it, the e153 has the same 5th gear ratios and final drive ratio as this s54/s51 hybrid would.

So, whatever a turbo is revving on the expressway, this s54/s51 combo would be doing the same.

[TomsMR2]

i brought this up a while ago.. you *should* be able to do it by simply lowering the engine a little and popping off the end case. the entire 5th assembly is there.

they *should* be the same shaft sizes, so you could just swap the whole 5th assembly in there and fire it up and drive away.. ~500rpm drop, which really should give a few mpg for damn near free (minus some time).

if someone can set me up with an s51 5th set, ill be glad to install it and report back

[Servin]

Originally Posted by mr220v

Come to think of it, the e153 has the same 5th gear ratios and final drive ratio as this s54/s51 hybrid would.

So, whatever a turbo is revving on the expressway, this s54/s51 combo would be doing the same.

Wow i really thought the BEAMS motor had the higher FD as well due to the increase of Hp but i guess not.

Now this im positive on the E153 != S51 5th and FD. Here is a list of trannys:

S54-E = Euro (3rd gen 3sge) S54-U= universal i.e everything else

S54-E S54-U E153
1 3.285 3.285 3.230
2 1.960 1.960 1.913
3 1.322 1.322 1.258
4 1.028 1.028 0.918
5 0.820 0.820 0.731
R 3.153 3.153 3.545
D 3.944 4.176 4.285

Probable FD and 5ths gears to use S51 or S53 from 1986-1990 4cyl 3SFE or 1.8 1S Camry (SV20), S51 from 96-01 on CE trim level, LE V6 Camry and 4cyl Solara 99-02.

All feature a FD of 3.944 and 5th gear ratio of 0.731

[mr220v]

You'll get a higher final drive based on torque, and not peak hp. The beams might make 200hp, but it's only making slightly more torque than a 5s. A high FD would benefit a v6 where you're out of your powerband by 5k and you have more torque off the line, whereas with the beams, the power lasts till 7k, but don't have as much torque off the line.

The beams is a very good match for the s54 of any year.

It may be possible that all we would need to switch are the driven gears. From what I've heard, the syncros are the same, which means that the everything next to the syncro should also be the same.

[TomsMR2]

the gears intermesh. if you get a smaller driven gear you'll need a bigger drive gear just to get it to mesh. gotta replace them in pairs.

the e series boxes have different diameter shafts than the s series boxes. the gears and fd's are different.

[mr220v]

^Right, at minimum you'd need to switch the drive gears on the input and output shafts. Maybe not the synchro stuff though. E series parts couldn't be used.

[Jason.MZW20]

The parts are interchangable between S transmissions of the same years.

Unfortunately, because of how the input shaft is designed on older S transmissions, you can't upgrade to the new double synchro 5th gear assembly that has been used on the updated S transmissions and also E series transmissions. The clutch hub is a new design that just won't work with the older input shaft. You also MUST use the input shaft gear from a single synchro transmission as it has a sleeve for the synchro ring (to rotate) which the newer gear does not have.

So, if you have a single synchro 5th gear S transmission, swap gears with a single synchro 5th gear S51. The S51 used a single synchro during the same years the S53 and S54 did, so around the mid-80s to 1993.

Here's the difference between the updated and non-updated 5th gear:




Also notice the oil reliefs are gone on the newer gears (not sure though). I think the little notches either reduce noise or allow gear oil to flow through with less effort. If anyone knows what they are used for, I'd definitely like to know for sure.

[mr220v]

So the big redesign happened in 93. Were there any redesigns after 93?

So when I go to do this, I'm going to order a set of s51 gears from say a 99 camry 4cyl. Would I need to order the sycro gear/assembly, or could I just order the two drive gears on the input and ouput shafts?

Do the s5x 5th synchro gears have the two bolts on top that allow me to use a steering wheel puller for removal, or do I need that crappy SST that you need with the c52?

[Jason.MZW20]

Originally Posted by mr220v

So the big redesign happened in 93. Were there any redesigns after 93?

So when I go to do this, I'm going to order a set of s51 gears from say a 99 camry 4cyl. Would I need to order the sycro gear/assembly, or could I just order the two drive gears on the input and ouput shafts?

Do the s5x 5th synchro gears have the two bolts on top that allow me to use a steering wheel puller for removal, or do I need that crappy SST that you need with the c52?

No major revisions after 1993. What year is your tranny?

If you have a 1993+ tranny, the 1999 5th gear will work fine. You'll need both gears, the driven (output) and actual (input). The 5th gear synchro doesn't come as a unit, so you have to order everything individually and put it together properly if you want new 5th gear synchro rings. Otherwise, you can use your existing double synchro assembly.

I should clarify about 1993 though. I mean mid-late 1993, not early. Toyota usually likes to get rid of older units before fully ramping up on the newer ones.

Yeah, you have to use a steering wheel puller to remove the synchro hub, so it's different from the older style where you sequentially tighten the bolts until it lifts or use an SST.

[mr220v]

My tranny is a 1998 s54 that came with my beams, so 1993.5 is a must. All the synchro parts are great, so I would just reuse them.