ok. fixing the 5s. quick tech ?

sinESter · 06-26-2008, 06:50 PM

so i removed the oil pan, removed the eggbeaters my 5s is so luckily bestowed with

. so where my rod connects to my crank one of them is loose, which obviously is the problem. do i need to just get new bearings for this rod? should i replace all of them while its apart? do i need to do more than just replace the bearings?? nothing else jiggles, just the one.

heres pics showing the one that jiggles.

sinESter · 06-26-2008, 07:20 PM

also, the bolts arent loose that keep everything together. those are tight. its just the rod around the shaft.

Ben · 06-26-2008, 09:21 PM

You should remove them and inspect them. You don't want it be be cracked or something and then have the bearing get spun.

The safest answer would be to replace them.

kbrew8991 · 06-26-2008, 09:32 PM

I would pull the entire crank and all the rods out and have a machine shop properly prepare them... and if any of the main bearings look off at all you'll need to yank the block out too and have everything checked over

TomsMR2 · 06-26-2008, 11:22 PM

^ thats the absolute last thing id ever do.. actually id never even consider doing that, hideous waste of LOTS of money. you instantly exceed the cost of a good used motor, and very quickly exceed the cost of a brand spankin new oem shortblock, or a fully rebuild, warrantied longblock. any 5sfe with crank or block damage should go in the trash, fixing them just doesnt make sense. not a stab at the 5sfe, its just that literally every other option for repair makes more sense.

at the end of the day, its a 5sfe. it redlines at 6200rpm, and has fairly moderate compression and ignition maps. its just not a heavy wearing engine, it can run with a REALLY loose and sloppy bottom end for a hundred thousand miles. for some reason they dont eat cranks or journals too often, just the bearing blows out. ive seen tons with bad bearings and prestine cranks and journals.. its a quick, reliable, long lasting perminant repair to replace the bearing, torque it down, seal the pan and forget about it.

pull the cap and shoot us a good picture of the crank journal and rod caps. if they're not gouged and blue, you can replace the bearing and measure with plastigage. if everything measures up, toss the pan back on and drive off.

kbrew8991 · 06-26-2008, 11:28 PM

what the hell shop are you going to that checking a crank and maybe griding it 0.010" under costs more than maybe $100-$200?

if stuff is really scored, etc then yeah we need to revisit repair vs replace... but I think your idea of what it actually costs is probably a touch high

TomsMR2 · 06-26-2008, 11:35 PM

its not. it adds up very fast. you dont just grind a crank and toss it back in.

a new bearing is 9 dollars. a tube of rtv is 5.. some plastigage is maybe another 5. you cant beat the price for that repair.

kbrew8991 · 06-27-2008, 12:15 AM

ok, didn't do this with other cars or anything

If you go to RickyBobby's race shop sure you'll blow $$. You call around and get a budget yet quality shop and you'd be surprised

I've seen too many people have half-assed garaged rebuilds bite them in the ass numerous times as well. Its your/his $$ though

if you're going to half-ass garage rebuild it, time and cost effectiveness wise I bet he comes out ahead just swapping in a known good short or long block. There is far too much precision, knowledge, and experience required to nail machine work like that

mr2greasemonkey · 06-27-2008, 02:03 AM

hah, Tom you're funny. 5s's are very stout, just depends on how hard you've hurt it. Tom's suggestion is actually not bad "if" the crank is not scored, or the bearings aren't completely wasted, or the rod hasn't blued, or the bolts have not stretched. If the journal is mic'ed and plastigaged and everything comes out within specs, new bearings are not really a bad repair. Should flush the oiling system too. My first suggestion would be to get a used engine, hopefully a decent shape one. Being that I know you are considering dumping the 5sfe out for something different.

TomsMR2 · 06-28-2008, 03:37 AM

yup, it only works if the crank is not scratched at all, and nothing has been blued. ive attempted 4 so far, 3 had no damage, the 4th was cooked (pump pully fell off completely, no saving that

)

but hes 90% there, it would take about 30 seconds to remove the cap and look.. toss a 5 dollar clevite bearing in, if its within spec, clean the pan and slap it on, do an oil change and call it a day. hes really already done most of the work, for the price its worth trying. worst case you're right back to where you were and out 10 or 20 bucks.. best case, its done and over with. i think its worth a shot, even if its not technically the right repair

sinESter · 07-02-2008, 03:10 PM

it was ok. but its like 100 bucks for new bearings... thats almost the cost of a new 5s.

kbrew8991 · 07-02-2008, 03:21 PM

keep shopping.. that sounds really high

sinESter · 07-02-2008, 03:25 PM

it was 48 for mains and 38 for rod bearings. so thats 86. plus a plastiguage and lube. about 100.

where do you guys find these cheap bearings?

TomsMR2 · 07-02-2008, 08:02 PM

you dont replace the mains..

sinESter · 07-05-2008, 02:37 AM

one of them was a little...worn... shall i post a picture to determine how bad it is?

Gairloch · 07-05-2008, 04:30 AM

What do you think?

TomsMR2 · 07-08-2008, 06:31 AM

ive yet to see a 5sfe with damaged mains that you could simply rebearing.

i think the mains get oil first, or they get oil very efficiently, or something. they usually still look brand new after tons of miles. i bet your motors cooked.. just a guess, but im gonna make some assumptions from the bunch of other 5sfe bottom ends ive torn down.

were you running a fram filter?

07-05-2008, 04:30 AM	#16 (permalink)
Gairloch Dreaming of apexes Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 4,426 Thanks: 114 Thanked 219 Times in 192 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (7/100% )	What do you think? __________________ "Inside the car, the world beyond the driver's immediate horizon ceases to exist. Alone with the solitude of his desire, survival sense numbed by the speed, he's outrun the mediocrity of the outside world, slipped the shackles it tries to clamp on us all. He is running free, chased only by a fear of failure, for failure is to risk ejection into the real world." ~Mark Hughes

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

06-26-2008, 07:20 PM	#2 (permalink)
sinESter quick like a minx Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: portland Posts: 480 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	also, the bolts arent loose that keep everything together. those are tight. its just the rod around the shaft.

06-26-2008, 09:21 PM	#3 (permalink)
Ben Propulsion Restored Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Oceanside, CA / Reno, NV Posts: 3,278 Thanks: 18 Thanked 234 Times in 221 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (10/100% )	You should remove them and inspect them. You don't want it be be cracked or something and then have the bearing get spun. The safest answer would be to replace them.

06-26-2008, 09:32 PM	#4 (permalink)
kbrew8991 gimme some turns Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,095 Thanks: 39 Thanked 52 Times in 45 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	I would pull the entire crank and all the rods out and have a machine shop properly prepare them... and if any of the main bearings look off at all you'll need to yank the block out too and have everything checked over

06-26-2008, 11:22 PM	#5 (permalink)
TomsMR2 Formerly Tom Brokaw Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Bay Area Posts: 2,040 Thanks: 8 Thanked 152 Times in 129 Posts Blog Entries: 1 iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	^ thats the absolute last thing id ever do.. actually id never even consider doing that, hideous waste of LOTS of money. you instantly exceed the cost of a good used motor, and very quickly exceed the cost of a brand spankin new oem shortblock, or a fully rebuild, warrantied longblock. any 5sfe with crank or block damage should go in the trash, fixing them just doesnt make sense. not a stab at the 5sfe, its just that literally every other option for repair makes more sense. at the end of the day, its a 5sfe. it redlines at 6200rpm, and has fairly moderate compression and ignition maps. its just not a heavy wearing engine, it can run with a REALLY loose and sloppy bottom end for a hundred thousand miles. for some reason they dont eat cranks or journals too often, just the bearing blows out. ive seen tons with bad bearings and prestine cranks and journals.. its a quick, reliable, long lasting perminant repair to replace the bearing, torque it down, seal the pan and forget about it. pull the cap and shoot us a good picture of the crank journal and rod caps. if they're not gouged and blue, you can replace the bearing and measure with plastigage. if everything measures up, toss the pan back on and drive off.

06-26-2008, 11:28 PM	#6 (permalink)
kbrew8991 gimme some turns Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,095 Thanks: 39 Thanked 52 Times in 45 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	what the hell shop are you going to that checking a crank and maybe griding it 0.010" under costs more than maybe $100-$200? if stuff is really scored, etc then yeah we need to revisit repair vs replace... but I think your idea of what it actually costs is probably a touch high

06-26-2008, 11:35 PM	#7 (permalink)
TomsMR2 Formerly Tom Brokaw Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Bay Area Posts: 2,040 Thanks: 8 Thanked 152 Times in 129 Posts Blog Entries: 1 iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	its not. it adds up very fast. you dont just grind a crank and toss it back in. a new bearing is 9 dollars. a tube of rtv is 5.. some plastigage is maybe another 5. you cant beat the price for that repair.

06-27-2008, 12:15 AM	#8 (permalink)
kbrew8991 gimme some turns Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,095 Thanks: 39 Thanked 52 Times in 45 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	ok, didn't do this with other cars or anything If you go to RickyBobby's race shop sure you'll blow $$. You call around and get a budget yet quality shop and you'd be surprised I've seen too many people have half-assed garaged rebuilds bite them in the ass numerous times as well. Its your/his $$ though if you're going to half-ass garage rebuild it, time and cost effectiveness wise I bet he comes out ahead just swapping in a known good short or long block. There is far too much precision, knowledge, and experience required to nail machine work like that

06-27-2008, 02:03 AM	#9 (permalink)
mr2greasemonkey Mines Bigger Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 1,170 Thanks: 4 Thanked 39 Times in 26 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	hah, Tom you're funny. 5s's are very stout, just depends on how hard you've hurt it. Tom's suggestion is actually not bad "if" the crank is not scored, or the bearings aren't completely wasted, or the rod hasn't blued, or the bolts have not stretched. If the journal is mic'ed and plastigaged and everything comes out within specs, new bearings are not really a bad repair. Should flush the oiling system too. My first suggestion would be to get a used engine, hopefully a decent shape one. Being that I know you are considering dumping the 5sfe out for something different.

06-28-2008, 03:37 AM	#10 (permalink)
TomsMR2 Formerly Tom Brokaw Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Bay Area Posts: 2,040 Thanks: 8 Thanked 152 Times in 129 Posts Blog Entries: 1 iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	yup, it only works if the crank is not scratched at all, and nothing has been blued. ive attempted 4 so far, 3 had no damage, the 4th was cooked (pump pully fell off completely, no saving that ) but hes 90% there, it would take about 30 seconds to remove the cap and look.. toss a 5 dollar clevite bearing in, if its within spec, clean the pan and slap it on, do an oil change and call it a day. hes really already done most of the work, for the price its worth trying. worst case you're right back to where you were and out 10 or 20 bucks.. best case, its done and over with. i think its worth a shot, even if its not technically the right repair

07-02-2008, 03:10 PM	#11 (permalink)
sinESter quick like a minx Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: portland Posts: 480 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	it was ok. but its like 100 bucks for new bearings... thats almost the cost of a new 5s.

07-02-2008, 03:21 PM	#12 (permalink)
kbrew8991 gimme some turns Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,095 Thanks: 39 Thanked 52 Times in 45 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	keep shopping.. that sounds really high

07-02-2008, 03:25 PM	#13 (permalink)
sinESter quick like a minx Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: portland Posts: 480 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	it was 48 for mains and 38 for rod bearings. so thats 86. plus a plastiguage and lube. about 100. where do you guys find these cheap bearings?

07-02-2008, 08:02 PM	#14 (permalink)
TomsMR2 Formerly Tom Brokaw Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Bay Area Posts: 2,040 Thanks: 8 Thanked 152 Times in 129 Posts Blog Entries: 1 iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	you dont replace the mains..

07-05-2008, 02:37 AM	#15 (permalink)
sinESter quick like a minx Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: portland Posts: 480 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	one of them was a little...worn... shall i post a picture to determine how bad it is?

07-08-2008, 06:31 AM	#17 (permalink)
TomsMR2 Formerly Tom Brokaw Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Bay Area Posts: 2,040 Thanks: 8 Thanked 152 Times in 129 Posts Blog Entries: 1 iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	ive yet to see a 5sfe with damaged mains that you could simply rebearing. i think the mains get oil first, or they get oil very efficiently, or something. they usually still look brand new after tons of miles. i bet your motors cooked.. just a guess, but im gonna make some assumptions from the bunch of other 5sfe bottom ends ive torn down. were you running a fram filter?