Getting power from a 5SFE without forced induction - Page 4

HeartbreakMR2 · 07-24-2008, 01:48 AM

information over load. Thanks to everyone, but for information and questions I would have forgotten to ask. Subscribing for further review.

MR2 Drifter · 07-25-2008, 03:22 AM

So how much hp and torque will u get or "estimated" when you do the performance build???

Mark_Dorman · 07-25-2008, 02:26 PM

From what others have done...~150 whp has been seen from a performance build with mild cams. I wouldn't expect to get more than reliable 170whp from a 5s with a performance build...and that's after you put a lot of money into it. I'm sure someone with personal experience will chime in soon.

mrturrari · 07-26-2008, 04:06 PM

Oh are we back on topic?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MR2 Drifter

So how much hp and torque will u get or "estimated" when you do the performance build???

It depends on the mods. If done right you should see 150rwhp and up. Torque will probably be in the 140-150rwtq range but the higher in the RPMs you can make your peaks the higher they will be.

If you started with with more aggressive cams like 272-280 AD and built the engine to rev, raised compression, added flow mods for your target RPM range like custom intake manifold, TB, headers, exhaust and port the head, I wouldn't be surprised to see 170-190rwhp.

mpg · 04-17-2009, 08:43 PM

Which engines from the first post will pass an emissions test?

How much rwhp can you expect while passing emissions?

Mark_Dorman · 04-17-2009, 09:35 PM

Depends on your states rules...

mpg · 04-18-2009, 02:05 PM

How much power can you get with a cat?

Mark_Dorman · 04-18-2009, 02:26 PM

A high flow cat will still net you decent power. You'd wanna make sure to remove all the bottle necks in the system first...

mpg · 04-18-2009, 03:29 PM

Does 140-150 rwhp sound reasonable with a high flow cat and without going too crazy?

Mark_Dorman · 04-18-2009, 04:30 PM

Depends on the motor and what else you've done to it...

Oteck · 04-18-2009, 07:13 PM

<flame suit on>
Drugs and plenty of it, you can't fool the engine to make alot power but you can fool the driver

but realistically n/a power is expensive. I wish toyota gave us the 3sge instead

TomsMR2 · 04-25-2009, 06:04 AM

oteck, you might be the poster child of why you should modify the 5sfe instead of pursuit other avenues.. how many years has your car been down now?

my slow, lightly modified 5sfe is faster than an engine on a stand.

cams, bolt ons and the stock ecu puts you pretty much at 140whp. 35+ whp gains.

TomsMR2 · 04-25-2009, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpg

How much power can you get with a cat?

the limit that i know of is 1001 horsepower. legally, california approved.

dont worry about cats. they're not coming close to holding you back.

1993MR2NA · 05-29-2009, 02:24 AM

I would like to do the 294 cams, if they really gain 20+whp for it. But I'm not going to pay $600. Are there any cheap ones to be found? (I have a '93 NA)
I would not be happy if I can't pass Texas inspection after all that labor either.

Jerry

Mark_Dorman · 05-29-2009, 03:53 AM

Since you have a 93 5s you'll have to get hardwelds. So cheap regrinds are out of the questions. I highly doubt you'll find used NA cams for sale but you can always watch the marketplace.

TomsMR2 · 05-29-2009, 08:08 AM

im gonna dig in further.. i *think* some year late model rav4 cams *may* work as straight regrinds into 93+ heads. ive been quoted under 200 bucks to regrind cams. i know a guy who ground some year rav cams into a 91 to get a very aggressive setup.. it was so long ago i dont remember details. its possible they'll also fit a 93..

you can also grab a cheap 91 head, and regrind your 93 cams into that head.. theres no benefit to hard welds really.

fvillota · 05-29-2009, 10:07 AM

im interested in those rav4 cams fors my 91 5s!

1993MR2NA · 05-29-2009, 01:39 PM

Thanks for the info.
Since I'd like the option to go back, I think buying a cheap (rav4?) cam and regrinding it would be the best option. The cost shouldn't be too different, since my other option requires the purchase of a '91 head, right?

There is something I'm not understanding though.
From previous posts I had gathered that the '93 cam would not regrind into a '93 head because of some sort of shim issue. If that is the case, then I can understand why a '91 head would resolve that. But how does that explain why a rav4 cam regrind would work in the '93 head?

Jerry

mrturrari · 05-31-2009, 02:04 PM

The 96+ Rav4 cams are the same as the 93+ Mr2 cams. They have the same base circle and as far as I could tell the same profile. You are right that the problem when you grind them becomes finding shims that are tall enough to take up the space of what you ground off. Colt and Teds both can make shims to go under the buckets. Last I heard Colt's availible grind wasn't as aggresive as the 294 but they include the extra shims. Teds can grind you a similar profile to the 294 but the underbucket shims will cost you extra. In the end to get a similar profile to the 294 you end up paying almost as much as the Webcams and they are harder to install. For Webcams if you want to save a few bucks try going through a 3rd party like Import Performance Parts - Import Performance Engine & Racing Parts. They get a price break for quantity I asume. You still ship your cams to Webcams and back so you won't get charged for any extra shipping.

mrturrari · 05-31-2009, 02:12 PM

Oh yeah and as for emissions... this last Friday I took my car in to have it tested. It passed with flying colors and I am running the 101 grind which is equivalent to a 272 from most cam makers. Davis County here tests at idle and 2500rpms but not under load. I am also using a magnaflow high-flow cat which helps.

With the 294 grind I doubt you will have any problems passing emissions no matter which state you are in.

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07-24-2008, 01:48 AM	#61 (permalink)
HeartbreakMR2 Cage Fighter Join Date: May 2008 Location: Clarksville,TN Posts: 214 Thanks: 12 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts Blog Entries: 1 iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	information over load. Thanks to everyone, but for information and questions I would have forgotten to ask. Subscribing for further review.

07-25-2008, 03:22 AM	#62 (permalink)
MR2 Drifter No Drifting Skills Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Chicago Posts: 956 Thanks: 3 Thanked 16 Times in 16 Posts iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	So how much hp and torque will u get or "estimated" when you do the performance build???

07-25-2008, 02:26 PM	#63 (permalink)
Mark_Dorman And the V6 swap continues Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Pasadena, CA Posts: 4,134 Thanks: 75 Thanked 72 Times in 68 Posts Blog Entries: 1 iTrader Rating: (19/100% )	From what others have done...~150 whp has been seen from a performance build with mild cams. I wouldn't expect to get more than reliable 170whp from a 5s with a performance build...and that's after you put a lot of money into it. I'm sure someone with personal experience will chime in soon.

04-17-2009, 08:43 PM	#65 (permalink)
mpg Some Skills Join Date: May 2008 Location: Connecticut Posts: 62 Thanks: 60 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	Which engines from the first post will pass an emissions test? How much rwhp can you expect while passing emissions?

04-17-2009, 09:35 PM	#66 (permalink)
Mark_Dorman And the V6 swap continues Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Pasadena, CA Posts: 4,134 Thanks: 75 Thanked 72 Times in 68 Posts Blog Entries: 1 iTrader Rating: (19/100% )	Depends on your states rules...

04-18-2009, 02:05 PM	#67 (permalink)
mpg Some Skills Join Date: May 2008 Location: Connecticut Posts: 62 Thanks: 60 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	How much power can you get with a cat?

04-18-2009, 02:26 PM	#68 (permalink)
Mark_Dorman And the V6 swap continues Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Pasadena, CA Posts: 4,134 Thanks: 75 Thanked 72 Times in 68 Posts Blog Entries: 1 iTrader Rating: (19/100% )	A high flow cat will still net you decent power. You'd wanna make sure to remove all the bottle necks in the system first...

04-18-2009, 03:29 PM	#69 (permalink)
mpg Some Skills Join Date: May 2008 Location: Connecticut Posts: 62 Thanks: 60 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	Does 140-150 rwhp sound reasonable with a high flow cat and without going too crazy?

04-18-2009, 04:30 PM	#70 (permalink)
Mark_Dorman And the V6 swap continues Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Pasadena, CA Posts: 4,134 Thanks: 75 Thanked 72 Times in 68 Posts Blog Entries: 1 iTrader Rating: (19/100% )	Depends on the motor and what else you've done to it...

04-18-2009, 07:13 PM	#71 (permalink)
Oteck RAAAGE! Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 2,145 Thanks: 8 Thanked 60 Times in 57 Posts Blog Entries: 2 iTrader Rating: (3/100% )	<flame suit on> Drugs and plenty of it, you can't fool the engine to make alot power but you can fool the driver but realistically n/a power is expensive. I wish toyota gave us the 3sge instead

04-25-2009, 06:04 AM	#72 (permalink)
TomsMR2 Formerly Tom Brokaw Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Bay Area Posts: 2,497 Thanks: 8 Thanked 233 Times in 168 Posts Blog Entries: 1 iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	oteck, you might be the poster child of why you should modify the 5sfe instead of pursuit other avenues.. how many years has your car been down now? my slow, lightly modified 5sfe is faster than an engine on a stand. cams, bolt ons and the stock ecu puts you pretty much at 140whp. 35+ whp gains.

05-29-2009, 02:24 AM	#74 (permalink)
1993MR2NA Natural Aspiration Skills Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 46 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	I would like to do the 294 cams, if they really gain 20+whp for it. But I'm not going to pay $600. Are there any cheap ones to be found? (I have a '93 NA) I would not be happy if I can't pass Texas inspection after all that labor either. Jerry

05-29-2009, 03:53 AM	#75 (permalink)
Mark_Dorman And the V6 swap continues Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Pasadena, CA Posts: 4,134 Thanks: 75 Thanked 72 Times in 68 Posts Blog Entries: 1 iTrader Rating: (19/100% )	Since you have a 93 5s you'll have to get hardwelds. So cheap regrinds are out of the questions. I highly doubt you'll find used NA cams for sale but you can always watch the marketplace.

05-29-2009, 08:08 AM	#76 (permalink)
TomsMR2 Formerly Tom Brokaw Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Bay Area Posts: 2,497 Thanks: 8 Thanked 233 Times in 168 Posts Blog Entries: 1 iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	im gonna dig in further.. i think some year late model rav4 cams may work as straight regrinds into 93+ heads. ive been quoted under 200 bucks to regrind cams. i know a guy who ground some year rav cams into a 91 to get a very aggressive setup.. it was so long ago i dont remember details. its possible they'll also fit a 93.. you can also grab a cheap 91 head, and regrind your 93 cams into that head.. theres no benefit to hard welds really.

05-29-2009, 10:07 AM	#77 (permalink)
fvillota Cage Fighter Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: MIami Posts: 1,826 Thanks: 65 Thanked 28 Times in 28 Posts iTrader Rating: (6/100% )	im interested in those rav4 cams fors my 91 5s!

05-29-2009, 01:39 PM	#78 (permalink)
1993MR2NA Natural Aspiration Skills Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 46 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Thanks for the info. Since I'd like the option to go back, I think buying a cheap (rav4?) cam and regrinding it would be the best option. The cost shouldn't be too different, since my other option requires the purchase of a '91 head, right? There is something I'm not understanding though. From previous posts I had gathered that the '93 cam would not regrind into a '93 head because of some sort of shim issue. If that is the case, then I can understand why a '91 head would resolve that. But how does that explain why a rav4 cam regrind would work in the '93 head? Jerry

05-31-2009, 02:04 PM	#79 (permalink)
mrturrari I <3 my 5sfe Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Posts: 511 Thanks: 2 Thanked 125 Times in 82 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	The 96+ Rav4 cams are the same as the 93+ Mr2 cams. They have the same base circle and as far as I could tell the same profile. You are right that the problem when you grind them becomes finding shims that are tall enough to take up the space of what you ground off. Colt and Teds both can make shims to go under the buckets. Last I heard Colt's availible grind wasn't as aggresive as the 294 but they include the extra shims. Teds can grind you a similar profile to the 294 but the underbucket shims will cost you extra. In the end to get a similar profile to the 294 you end up paying almost as much as the Webcams and they are harder to install. For Webcams if you want to save a few bucks try going through a 3rd party like Import Performance Parts - Import Performance Engine & Racing Parts. They get a price break for quantity I asume. You still ship your cams to Webcams and back so you won't get charged for any extra shipping.

05-31-2009, 02:12 PM	#80 (permalink)
mrturrari I <3 my 5sfe Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Posts: 511 Thanks: 2 Thanked 125 Times in 82 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Oh yeah and as for emissions... this last Friday I took my car in to have it tested. It passed with flying colors and I am running the 101 grind which is equivalent to a 272 from most cam makers. Davis County here tests at idle and 2500rpms but not under load. I am also using a magnaflow high-flow cat which helps. With the 294 grind I doubt you will have any problems passing emissions no matter which state you are in.