About ot get a 92 with an engine knock, what to replace it with? another 5S? or 3S?

Texas_Ace · 07-14-2008, 10:52 AM

So I am about to get a 92 with an engine knock. Depending on how bad it is i am just going to replace the engine vs trying to fix it.

My question is, while i am doing it anyways, what engine shoul i put in there on a budget? I have seen the 5s for dirt cheap. but have also heard they don't have much power. I used to have a camry that had one and it was slow as snot (it also had an auto tranny though).

I have heard the 3s is a good engine, and it is pretty easy to swap? Of course i would rather get a 3sgte but no way i can drop $3000 into an engine right now. Though if the engine that is in the car ends up running ok and lasts for awhile i might be able to save up and do that.

Basicaly what are the pros and cons to each engine and about how much am i looking at for each?

The car would be a daily driver with possible auto-x use from time to time. Maybe a drag here and there but nothing serious.

Just want a car that is fun to drive and gets good milage and is relible. I am totally lost as to what each engine has going for it and agienst it.

So any help would be great!

MR2enV · 07-14-2008, 03:08 PM

go 3sge.. I got mine for 600 and did the swap my self... its easy if you have the 3S engine harness

Mark_Dorman · 07-14-2008, 03:14 PM

The 5s is a good engine but doesn't have much power. You could build one up a little with cams and some bolt-ons but it'd probably end up costing you around $2k. Because you're in texas you don't have to worry as much about smog checks so I'd say just try and find a 3 generation 3sge. I think they put out some decent power and are affordable if you can find one. Honestly a turbo swap can cost less than $1500 if you do the work yourself. Although the turbos aren't good for auto-x (more drag oriented). Although if you're concerned about classing in auto-x you would need to have stock internals...I'm not sure if it matters what engine you have (5s or 3s). Honestly the best route for you would probably be the 3sge. I'd do it if I wasn't in California.

This member might be selling a 3rd gen. 3sge.
Sell my 3sge?

Texas_Ace · 07-15-2008, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MR2enV

go 3sge.. I got mine for 600 and did the swap my self... its easy if you have the 3S engine harness

Thats good to know it is easy if i do it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark_Dorman

The 5s is a good engine but doesn't have much power. You could build one up a little with cams and some bolt-ons but it'd probably end up costing you around $2k. Because you're in texas you don't have to worry as much about smog checks so I'd say just try and find a 3 generation 3sge. I think they put out some decent power and are affordable if you can find one. Honestly a turbo swap can cost less than $1500 if you do the work yourself. Although the turbos aren't good for auto-x (more drag oriented). Although if you're concerned about classing in auto-x you would need to have stock internals...I'm not sure if it matters what engine you have (5s or 3s). Honestly the best route for you would probably be the 3sge. I'd do it if I wasn't in California.

This member might be selling a 3rd gen. 3sge.
Sell my 3sge?

Ok, well i do have a question then, the 3s is only rated at around 115hp where the 5s is rated for about 145hp acording to toyota.

Just woundering how the 3s would produce more power if this is the case? does it take a turbo better or something?

Hopfully i can milk the engine that is in the car long enough to save up for a turbo swap. but if not then price is a big problem.

Mark_Dorman · 07-15-2008, 11:38 AM

The third gen 3sge has a higher horsepower rating:

"The third generation 3S-GE was produced from 1994 to 1999. Power output was increased to 177 bhp (132 kW, 180 PS) over the gen 2, while torque figures stayed the same. It received a minor revision in 1996 for emissions (EGR) which reduced power output to 173 bhp (125 kW, 170 PS) @ 7000 rpm." -Wikipedia

The 5s was only rated at 130bhp from 91-92 and it bumped up to 135bhp in 93. The 3sge is harder to find parts for but if you're not planning on modding it out I'd go that route. It's some good reliable power without FI.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas_Ace

Ok, well i do have a question then, the 3s is only rated at around 115hp where the 5s is rated for about 145hp acording to toyota.

Just woundering how the 3s would produce more power if this is the case? does it take a turbo better or something?

Hopfully i can milk the engine that is in the car long enough to save up for a turbo swap. but if not then price is a big problem.

The second gen 3sge was rated at 113kw which is roughly equal to 150hp. The first gen was rated at 135hp. So no matter what you'd be doing better than the 5s. For real gains you'd have to source a 2nd or 3rd generation. Hope this helps...

Texas_Ace · 07-15-2008, 05:57 PM

Ok, that explains some, i don't know where i saw those figures above.

My first concern is relibility, second is performance and then thrid is Gas milage.

At some point if i end up keeping the car to when i have the $$$ i do plan on running a turbo on it in some form. If i could get away with turboing whatever engine i put in there then that might decide what engine i get. If not then i will have to see what happens.

If i could get 200hp - 300hp once is all said and done and it still be relible i would be happy. and for the cheapest amount of $$$.

Mark_Dorman · 07-15-2008, 06:01 PM

The 5s and 3s are both gonna give you pretty good gas mileage in NA form. I'm getting around 26-28mpg with mixed driving. Honestly you can turbo either motor but in the end a full turbo swap will probably be cheapest (although turboing the 3s would be easier than the 5s). I'm pretty sure the turbos (3sgte) can run 200-300hp with good reliability...turbo guys comment?

Texas_Ace · 07-16-2008, 11:38 AM

Thanks, well after some more reading and looking around i think it will come down to price.

If i can afford it and can find a good 3sGTE i will try that, but i doubt it. So most likely a 3SGE is in my future if i can find a good deal, there is a place not to far from me that imports JDM engines. i might be able to find a deal. If not then another 5s goes in there.

Will just have to see what happens. All i want is a car that is really fun to drive on the weekends and can still compete at the track a few times a year. so 200hp+ (of course more is always better) would make me happy. The question is how to get that.

Does anyone know what the compression ratios of the 5s/3s are?

Mark_Dorman · 07-16-2008, 12:08 PM

The 5s is 9.5:1. I'm pretty sure the 3sge has a compression ratio of 10.3:1 and the 3sgte is 8.5:1. The beams engine (4th gen 3sge) has a compression ratio of 11.0:1.

Texas_Ace · 07-16-2008, 12:10 PM

wow, the 3sge is that high? i can't see how it could take any boost with that. the 5s seems like it would be easier in that sense.

Texas_Ace · 07-16-2008, 12:27 PM

Ok, i just got done calling a few local places and 1 places has a 3s-gte freshly rebuilt for $1400 for a snd gen model or $1200 for a 1st gen model., and since it is local i can pick it up and use the waranty should i need to. Is that a good deal?

If i can get a 3s-GTE for that much or less than it seems like a waste to spend $500 on a 5s when i could spend a little more for that. though it WOULD have to wait a few months for the $$$ if i did that.

What all is needed for a GTE swap? anyone know or have a link?

Mark_Dorman · 07-16-2008, 12:36 PM

Does the engine come with a transmission? If so the 2nd gen is a good deal. It's always a good idea to do what you really want the first time around. Saves money in the long run. A freshly rebuilt motor would be nice...

There are a ton of threads that go over everything necessary for the turbo swap. You need the ecu, axles, wiring harness (might be able to mod the 5s harness...I can't remember), you might even need a turbo cluster but I'm not sure. sw20Tmatt did that swap...he had a donor car but he would know all the parts you'd need if you wanna message him. If not do a search...a lot of people have done it so far.

Oh...and the 3sgte has an 8.5:1 compression ratio (it was made for the turbo). The 3sge has a higher compression because it is a NA engine.

Texas_Ace · 07-16-2008, 12:41 PM

No tranny, but the one in the car was just rebuilt, so do i need anther one? Will it bolt up to the 5s tranny?

If i need another tranny as well to swap a 3s-XXX then i will have to stay with a 5s, just due to cost. the engiens with tranys run $2500+ no way i could afford that.

Mark_Dorman · 07-16-2008, 12:59 PM

It'll bolt up the gear ratios are all wrong. The 5s tranny was design to work with a lower powered engine. I know it'll bolt up but not sure how well it'll work. Don't know anyone who's done the 3sgte with the 5s tranny. The 5s tranny would work better with the lower torque 3sge engine.

Texas_Ace · 07-16-2008, 01:07 PM

So whats the differnce with the tranny? Designed for power in lower RPM's?

So you are saying i *COULD* just get a 3sgte engine and drop it in with a new ECU and wiring, and run it as is, it would just not work that well?

the idea is to get it running in to short term for the least $$$. long term i can spend more on it. so if i could drop the engine in and then just do a tranny later i might be able to do it, but if i have to do the whole nine yards off the bat no way i could afford it.

Will a 3s-ge drop right in? or does it need all the same stuff as the turbo?

Mark_Dorman · 07-16-2008, 01:16 PM

You can drop it right in for the most part. As long as the engine you're buying has all the necessary parts/accessories. The gearing on the 5s tranny is higher...think of it like a bicycle with speeds: the bigger gears will get you moving more easily with less effort (power). The 5s needs this because it has so little power. The 3sgte has enough power that it doesn't need such high gearing. Using the 5s tranny with the turbo will affect your cruising rpms and will limit your ability to use the turbos power band effectively...but it will work.

Also...if you're using the 5s tranny you can use the drivetrain (axles, hubs, etc) that are on the car. That'll make it easier...just make sure you don't push it too hard...I'm not sure how well the NA axles and such will hold up to the turbo's power.

Here...read this...
MK2 NA > Turbo Write-Up

Texas_Ace · 07-16-2008, 01:33 PM

Well if thats the case then at least it is an option. I am just REALLY tight on cash right now. i just got 2 RX7's and now this, leaving my empty in the wallet department.

and i have to get it running so i can get it inspected and thus leave it on the street, the driveway is already full.

So if the engine that is in there runs enough to pass inspection, then i am good and will just let it be until i can save up for a proper swap, but if not then i am forced to do it pronto and thus go with the cheapest engine i can get.

alex93blk · 07-18-2008, 12:24 AM

im on the same boat, im looking into a second gen 3sge to swap in my 93. ive been calling a bunch of places and noone seems to have a second gen 3s. most only have 3sgte! damn those turbo

. but anywayse i decided to go with gen 2 cuz parts for it are more available. now the only question is where to find the engine

can any1 in here recomend a place? preferably on the east coast?

Gairloch · 07-18-2008, 05:11 AM

If you're going to get a turbo motor just get the proper tranny for it also. Not only is the gearing taller providing better efficiency but it's a beefier box so less likely to go kaboom. If you can't do the swap properly I strongly recommend that you go for either the 5sfe or the 3sge. If low cost and ease of swap are your priorities then the best bet is to just stuff another 5sfe in there. No, you won't win drag races with it but it's still a fantastic car to drive.

Something else to consider is how far you need to go with this. Is the engine otherwise leaking/burning oil? How many miles are on it? If the engine is in otherwise acceptable condition and it hasn't been shredded with metal shavings you might be able to get away with putting new bearings in for a couple hun

07-14-2008, 10:52 AM	#1 (permalink)
Texas_Ace No MR2 Yet Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 41 Thanks: 5 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	About ot get a 92 with an engine knock, what to replace it with? another 5S? or 3S? So I am about to get a 92 with an engine knock. Depending on how bad it is i am just going to replace the engine vs trying to fix it. My question is, while i am doing it anyways, what engine shoul i put in there on a budget? I have seen the 5s for dirt cheap. but have also heard they don't have much power. I used to have a camry that had one and it was slow as snot (it also had an auto tranny though). I have heard the 3s is a good engine, and it is pretty easy to swap? Of course i would rather get a 3sgte but no way i can drop $3000 into an engine right now. Though if the engine that is in the car ends up running ok and lasts for awhile i might be able to save up and do that. Basicaly what are the pros and cons to each engine and about how much am i looking at for each? The car would be a daily driver with possible auto-x use from time to time. Maybe a drag here and there but nothing serious. Just want a car that is fun to drive and gets good milage and is relible. I am totally lost as to what each engine has going for it and agienst it. So any help would be great!

07-14-2008, 03:14 PM	#3 (permalink)
Mark_Dorman SoCal MR2 Revival!!! Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 447 Thanks: 30 Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts iTrader Rating: (3/100% )	The 5s is a good engine but doesn't have much power. You could build one up a little with cams and some bolt-ons but it'd probably end up costing you around $2k. Because you're in texas you don't have to worry as much about smog checks so I'd say just try and find a 3 generation 3sge. I think they put out some decent power and are affordable if you can find one. Honestly a turbo swap can cost less than $1500 if you do the work yourself. Although the turbos aren't good for auto-x (more drag oriented). Although if you're concerned about classing in auto-x you would need to have stock internals...I'm not sure if it matters what engine you have (5s or 3s). Honestly the best route for you would probably be the 3sge. I'd do it if I wasn't in California. This member might be selling a 3rd gen. 3sge. Sell my 3sge? Last edited by Mark_Dorman; 07-14-2008 at 05:17 PM.

07-16-2008, 01:16 PM	#16 (permalink)
Mark_Dorman SoCal MR2 Revival!!! Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 447 Thanks: 30 Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts iTrader Rating: (3/100% )	You can drop it right in for the most part. As long as the engine you're buying has all the necessary parts/accessories. The gearing on the 5s tranny is higher...think of it like a bicycle with speeds: the bigger gears will get you moving more easily with less effort (power). The 5s needs this because it has so little power. The 3sgte has enough power that it doesn't need such high gearing. Using the 5s tranny with the turbo will affect your cruising rpms and will limit your ability to use the turbos power band effectively...but it will work. Also...if you're using the 5s tranny you can use the drivetrain (axles, hubs, etc) that are on the car. That'll make it easier...just make sure you don't push it too hard...I'm not sure how well the NA axles and such will hold up to the turbo's power. Here...read this... MK2 NA > Turbo Write-Up Last edited by Mark_Dorman; 07-16-2008 at 01:22 PM.

07-14-2008, 03:08 PM	#2 (permalink)
MR2enV WHY SO SERIOUS? Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Miramar, Florida Posts: 112 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	go 3sge.. I got mine for 600 and did the swap my self... its easy if you have the 3S engine harness

07-15-2008, 05:57 PM	#6 (permalink)
Texas_Ace No MR2 Yet Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 41 Thanks: 5 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Ok, that explains some, i don't know where i saw those figures above. My first concern is relibility, second is performance and then thrid is Gas milage. At some point if i end up keeping the car to when i have the $$$ i do plan on running a turbo on it in some form. If i could get away with turboing whatever engine i put in there then that might decide what engine i get. If not then i will have to see what happens. If i could get 200hp - 300hp once is all said and done and it still be relible i would be happy. and for the cheapest amount of $$$.

07-15-2008, 06:01 PM	#7 (permalink)
Mark_Dorman SoCal MR2 Revival!!! Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 447 Thanks: 30 Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts iTrader Rating: (3/100% )	The 5s and 3s are both gonna give you pretty good gas mileage in NA form. I'm getting around 26-28mpg with mixed driving. Honestly you can turbo either motor but in the end a full turbo swap will probably be cheapest (although turboing the 3s would be easier than the 5s). I'm pretty sure the turbos (3sgte) can run 200-300hp with good reliability...turbo guys comment?

07-16-2008, 11:38 AM	#8 (permalink)
Texas_Ace No MR2 Yet Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 41 Thanks: 5 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Thanks, well after some more reading and looking around i think it will come down to price. If i can afford it and can find a good 3sGTE i will try that, but i doubt it. So most likely a 3SGE is in my future if i can find a good deal, there is a place not to far from me that imports JDM engines. i might be able to find a deal. If not then another 5s goes in there. Will just have to see what happens. All i want is a car that is really fun to drive on the weekends and can still compete at the track a few times a year. so 200hp+ (of course more is always better) would make me happy. The question is how to get that. Does anyone know what the compression ratios of the 5s/3s are?

07-16-2008, 12:08 PM	#9 (permalink)
Mark_Dorman SoCal MR2 Revival!!! Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 447 Thanks: 30 Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts iTrader Rating: (3/100% )	The 5s is 9.5:1. I'm pretty sure the 3sge has a compression ratio of 10.3:1 and the 3sgte is 8.5:1. The beams engine (4th gen 3sge) has a compression ratio of 11.0:1.

07-16-2008, 12:10 PM	#10 (permalink)
Texas_Ace No MR2 Yet Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 41 Thanks: 5 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	wow, the 3sge is that high? i can't see how it could take any boost with that. the 5s seems like it would be easier in that sense.

07-16-2008, 12:27 PM	#11 (permalink)
Texas_Ace No MR2 Yet Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 41 Thanks: 5 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Ok, i just got done calling a few local places and 1 places has a 3s-gte freshly rebuilt for $1400 for a snd gen model or $1200 for a 1st gen model., and since it is local i can pick it up and use the waranty should i need to. Is that a good deal? If i can get a 3s-GTE for that much or less than it seems like a waste to spend $500 on a 5s when i could spend a little more for that. though it WOULD have to wait a few months for the $$$ if i did that. What all is needed for a GTE swap? anyone know or have a link?

07-16-2008, 12:36 PM	#12 (permalink)
Mark_Dorman SoCal MR2 Revival!!! Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 447 Thanks: 30 Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts iTrader Rating: (3/100% )	Does the engine come with a transmission? If so the 2nd gen is a good deal. It's always a good idea to do what you really want the first time around. Saves money in the long run. A freshly rebuilt motor would be nice... There are a ton of threads that go over everything necessary for the turbo swap. You need the ecu, axles, wiring harness (might be able to mod the 5s harness...I can't remember), you might even need a turbo cluster but I'm not sure. sw20Tmatt did that swap...he had a donor car but he would know all the parts you'd need if you wanna message him. If not do a search...a lot of people have done it so far. Oh...and the 3sgte has an 8.5:1 compression ratio (it was made for the turbo). The 3sge has a higher compression because it is a NA engine.

07-16-2008, 12:41 PM	#13 (permalink)
Texas_Ace No MR2 Yet Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 41 Thanks: 5 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	No tranny, but the one in the car was just rebuilt, so do i need anther one? Will it bolt up to the 5s tranny? If i need another tranny as well to swap a 3s-XXX then i will have to stay with a 5s, just due to cost. the engiens with tranys run $2500+ no way i could afford that.

07-16-2008, 12:59 PM	#14 (permalink)
Mark_Dorman SoCal MR2 Revival!!! Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 447 Thanks: 30 Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts iTrader Rating: (3/100% )	It'll bolt up the gear ratios are all wrong. The 5s tranny was design to work with a lower powered engine. I know it'll bolt up but not sure how well it'll work. Don't know anyone who's done the 3sgte with the 5s tranny. The 5s tranny would work better with the lower torque 3sge engine.

07-16-2008, 01:07 PM	#15 (permalink)
Texas_Ace No MR2 Yet Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 41 Thanks: 5 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	So whats the differnce with the tranny? Designed for power in lower RPM's? So you are saying i COULD just get a 3sgte engine and drop it in with a new ECU and wiring, and run it as is, it would just not work that well? the idea is to get it running in to short term for the least $$$. long term i can spend more on it. so if i could drop the engine in and then just do a tranny later i might be able to do it, but if i have to do the whole nine yards off the bat no way i could afford it. Will a 3s-ge drop right in? or does it need all the same stuff as the turbo?

07-16-2008, 01:33 PM	#17 (permalink)
Texas_Ace No MR2 Yet Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 41 Thanks: 5 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Well if thats the case then at least it is an option. I am just REALLY tight on cash right now. i just got 2 RX7's and now this, leaving my empty in the wallet department. and i have to get it running so i can get it inspected and thus leave it on the street, the driveway is already full. So if the engine that is in there runs enough to pass inspection, then i am good and will just let it be until i can save up for a proper swap, but if not then i am forced to do it pronto and thus go with the cheapest engine i can get.

07-18-2008, 12:24 AM	#18 (permalink)
alex93blk No Skills Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 2 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	im on the same boat, im looking into a second gen 3sge to swap in my 93. ive been calling a bunch of places and noone seems to have a second gen 3s. most only have 3sgte! damn those turbo . but anywayse i decided to go with gen 2 cuz parts for it are more available. now the only question is where to find the engine can any1 in here recomend a place? preferably on the east coast?