ok I kno..5s-fe..

[mr2greasemonkey]

Yr right Tom, I was still thinking "ideal power", hah. And yeah bout time ya gots ya respect'n, lol.

[mrturrari]

Originally Posted by mr2greasemonkey

The cam itself wont make any power, it only moves the power band up the rev range.

Actually no. Cams not only move the torque curve to the right but also increases torque and broaden the range. The faster an engine is moving, the greater the pressure differentials it creates at the intake valve. The cams let you keep the air moving at higher rpms and you actually make more torque because of it.

To the OP if you want a milder cam that has less overlap and more lift for a turbo go with the 763 grind. You would still be best served by raising your redline up to about 7500rpms though to use the power with either set of cams. You see turbos also move torque to the right when they are properly sized.

Lightened anything in an engine frees up power that can then be used to accelerate the car. You can't see it on a dyno because dyno's measure instantanious torque. If you look at trap speeds or lap times you will find there actually is an increase in HP by using lightened flywheels, crank pulleys, lightened internals, etc.

Originally Posted by TomsMR2

no ones actually installed a big enough cam to shift the power.

I have. I am now at the point where the stock intake manifold and TB are shutting me down around 7000rpms.

the head on its really not that bad.. it flows really well. the cams are like 195 degrees stock!

Totally agree with this. The 5sfe head is not bad at all and gets better when you work it right.

[mrturrari]

Originally Posted by mattdouken

If I Put
294 Webcams
4-2-1 Headers
2-1/2inch exhaust-no cat
Fidanza Lightweight flywheel
exedy stage 2 clutch
ngk 8.5mm plug wires
Intake

In a Brand new 5s-fe
Then Put A Ct-26 Turbo @ 9Psi on it.

What do you think would be the Horse power and Torque to the wheels.

Obviously skip the header unless you plan to switch back and forth between being turbo and not. The wires are also not going to gain you anything and are not as good as the stock Toyota ones.

Overall with the cams and a CT-26 and a good exhaust you should expect about 190-200rwhp and about the same in torque at 9psi. You are going to want to tune it with that setup so don't forget to add in 360+cc injectors and a piggyback or stand alone ECU.

[mr2greasemonkey]

Realistically cam's don't make power....I already said Tom was right, HAH! Good explanation though Mrturrai. I know most people work from the bottom up, I try and work from the top down.

[1993MR2NA]

"we've tried things, installed cams, headers, exhausts, chips, ems's, big valves, ported things out, filled things in, reprofiled and retimed. different heads have been put on, and new manifolds. intakes, wires, fancy plugs. everything."

What about spinach?

[mattdouken]

mrturrari thank you very much for posting,i was waitng for you to put you words in and help me out.

I have read your post on mild builds and turbo 5f-se and i think what you are doing with the 5s is F**king Awsome.....Thank you once again for giving me insite with the 5s.

[GENESIS]

Originally Posted by mattdouken

Ok, So I Guess every car i have seen hit the dyno(not any mr2 thats why im asking) with these listed mods with no turbo are wrong...

I have seen civic and integras get upwards of 50 to 60 hp increases.

50-60 sounds funny maybe10-15hp

[GENESIS]

Originally Posted by mr2greasemonkey

The cam itself wont make any power, it only moves the power band up the rev range. An aggressive NA cam in a forced induction application is not ideal. The clutch stuff is nice, but gives you nothing in HP only transfers power and a light weight flywheel will only rev quicker. Tune up stuff is good, but still no noticeable gains. Intake is dependent on the cylinder head mach numbers for volume filling velocity off boost then valve size/port flow under induction. Better exhaust will be the best gain per $$$, unless you have a turbo and manifold laying around already.

So...this is why peeps swap 5sfe's for 3sgte's.

+1 on the cams there might be a couple of hp gain if the factory cams was a bad design but overall it just moves the horsepower &torque curve up,the more aggressive the cams the less low-end drivability you will have,plus a higher idle,allot of people think it there's a true hp gain when you buys cams but the truth is your low end is robbed so you can have a better high-end on the dyno,a true hp gain is a gain all around the rpm.same thing with bolt ons
its just for efficiency,true hp is increasing displacement, compression, pressurizing the combustion chamber which is turbo or supercharging.

[GENESIS]

Originally Posted by mattdouken

that was a pretty dumb statement.

the flywheel would give me power by taking strain off the crank.

come on now think before you answer.

and you did not even answer the questions in full.What about the turbo....?(I didn't know we live in a world where a turbo doesn't give you power)

I agree with tom cams n headers are the only performance part,there might be a 1hp gain in the flywheel mod,but remember the flywheel also helps store energy that can be converted into torque and give a smoother engagement,
a lightweight flywheel allows you to rev faster and help increase throttle response.

[mattdouken]

i get it....i was having an off day.
My engine swap is going to be a 3s....but it will be a while before it happens.

[TomsMR2]

Originally Posted by GENESIS

+1 on the cams there might be a couple of hp gain if the factory cams was a bad design but overall it just moves the horsepower &torque curve up,the more aggressive the cams the less low-end drivability you will have,plus a higher idle

none of that is true, sorry.

cams add significant power.. it doesnt move the curve up at all, actually it adds quite a bit of low end power. you get more driveability, and they idle fine.

the dynos are out there guys.. go check them out. its proven beyond any doubt, 294 cams add power from idle to redline with peaks of about 25-30hp gains.

[mr2greasemonkey]

I think if someone had access to the correct data and was able to input it into a program, ie: engine analyzer or desktop, one could theoretically predict the "ideal" power and torque for the 5sfe. There are always things to be gained "over stock". If you knew what the limit was, you can always figure what can be done.

I gathered as much data as I could for my 5vz and plotted it on engine analyzer. I got as close as I could to matching the stock hp/tq chart. Then I started modifying the hard parts to see what the limit for hp/tq was. I have no guarantee if the hard parts will hold up, but I know the modifications that I've made so far seem to be close enough to the calculated numbers from my dyno charts. Course, that is a long drawn out process.

My suggestion would be to go with Tom on what has already been proven. Otherwise, use the internet find the necessary data and figure it out instead of just guessing.

[GENESIS]

Originally Posted by TomsMR2

none of that is true, sorry.

cams add significant power.. it doesnt move the curve up at all, actually it adds quite a bit of low end power. you get more driveability, and they idle fine.

the dynos are out there guys.. go check them out. its proven beyond any doubt, 294 cams add power from idle to redline with peaks of about 25-30hp gains.

maybe gains on the 5sfe coz the cams that came from it is not that great,ive had stage 2 integral cams on my miata with a standalone ecu it was dyno tuned numerous times and i saw a lost in the bottom end for a better top end, ive had toda cams also on my crx the same thing i saw when it was dyno tuned,ive also had a crate engine for my last miata it was dyno tuned with a very aggressive maruha cams it idle like crap like to 1200rpm allot of lost in low end torque but a very nice high-end power.ive been playing with cams for a long time.I can vouch for these cars that ive had that has cams and full tuning from a good dyno tuner.

this is what integral cams said about the miata cams that they are selling.

Our Miata cams are ground on either European Chilled Cast Iron Billets or alloy steel billets. Stage 1, 2, and 3 cams bolt-in just like the stock cams and work with the stock lifters and valve springs. Custom design services are available for full race applications.

Stage 1 designed for stock engines and cold air box.
Stage 2 designed for engine with cold air box and headers, although can be used with pure stock engine.
Stage 3 must use cold air box and headers;( slight loss in low-end torque but big gains from 4000-7000 rpm.)

Price: $575 per pair for stage 1 - 2 cast iron cams, $702 per pair for stage 3 - full race steel billet cams. We accept Visa and MasterCard.


for everyone do your research on cams check out the dyno like tom said
results are different for every cars but but all cams have the same principle.

[Tred]

i really liked my fidanza flywheel on my old 5sfe, with the act clutch the drive was GREAT!!! i really miss both of those more than any other engine mod i did to my old 5sfe

[GENESIS]

hey tred im planing on getting one for the 5sfe,how much lighter is the fidanza?and do you know whats the maximum hp that the stock clutch will hold?

[mrturrari]

Originally Posted by GENESIS

+1 on the cams there might be a couple of hp gain if the factory cams was a bad design but overall it just moves the horsepower &torque curve up,the more aggressive the cams the less low-end drivability you will have,plus a higher idle,allot of people think it there's a true hp gain when you buys cams but the truth is your low end is robbed so you can have a better high-end on the dyno,a true hp gain is a gain all around the rpm.same thing with bolt ons
its just for efficiency,true hp is increasing displacement, compression, pressurizing the combustion chamber which is turbo or supercharging.

It's not so much if there is a bad design then what the motor was designed to do. The 5sfe was designed to not be a direct competetor to the 3sgte and instead be a good motor for moving the heavier mkII/Celica chassis around with the performance of the average lower model sports car of the time.

You're right there is in fact a loss when moving up to 294 cams, it's just below where most dynos are measured. The only time you operate in that range is maybe puttering around a parking lot or in rush hour traffic and you will almost never be using 100% of the engine's power. Move up to 101 cams and you start to see the loss in a more noticable range but with the other mods you will probably do when stepping up to that aggressive a set of cams, you will still have more torque down there then the average 5sfe.

Horsepower is the measure of work done over time. Adding the cams does in fact increase HP. In addition it allows you to hold the torque further into the revs thereby letting you use the torque multiplier of your lower gears to do even more work.

[Tred]

idk for sure, its been a few years, i want to say 11 lbs in total weight, but i really cant remember, i just remember getting that and the act clutch installed and having a grin on my face for a week, i loved it- well worht the money in every way, the stock clutch for me was fine till i did engine work, ie-120 hp, with 68K miles on the car it started to slip, if you take the time to do the flywheel just do a decent clutch at the same time, well worth it

[TomsMR2]

i had two 91's, one with a fidanza and one stock.. really dont notice much difference between the two.

[mr2greasemonkey]

I was thinking of using a first gen 3sge head on a 3sgte block. I should go dig up the parts and take pictures for comparison.

[GENESIS]

i guess im gonna find out in 2 weeks how the fidanza will do with a new oem clutch,maybe after that i might think about getting some 294 cams or just save up for a gen 3 3sge.