got stranded last night. Clutch pedal lost pressure. need help plz.

fvillota · 06-06-2009, 08:12 AM

HI guys.
I was on the highway last night and my car decided to stay in 5th gear and just rev like if it was in neutral.

i pressed my clutch pedal to shift back out and se whats wrong but it never came back up. I pulled over and checked the master clutch and signs of leaks anywhere in the car.

nothing. the master was full and no leaks at all.
the pedal just was no pressure.

i turned it off and tried to turn in back on and it sounds like the starter wont engage/

i tired putting it in gear and getting the starter to push the car to see if it was at least not engaged and my car moves forward very very slowly. but slips.

does this mean i have a bad pressure plate?

can the master or slave fail without any leaks?

i have no choice but to pull the tranny down huh?

fvillota · 06-06-2009, 09:08 AM

help me plzzz
anyone?

fvillota · 06-06-2009, 10:10 AM

update!

i checked to see if the fork was moving.
it is. the master and slave seem to be working well.

here is where it gets good.

some how.. the starter moves the flywheel but does not turn the engine.
has the back of the crank broken/ is that even possible?

or is it more possible for the flywheel to break in the middle?

palos · 06-06-2009, 10:41 AM

Based on the your third post, it sounds as though your timing belt may have broken or stripped its teeth, though your engine would not "rev" as you described in your first post. Look to see whether the crank is turning, but that the cams are not, when you turn the engine over with the starter.

You also need to diagnose your clutch pedal problem. Try bleeding the slave and the master to see if you have air in the system. It is possible for a slave or master to not build pressure, essentially the brake fluid is bypassing the o-rings, without causing external leaks. Since the fork is now moving, air in the system may have been the cause for the pedal to stick to the floor.

fvillota · 06-06-2009, 11:27 AM

well it moves the slave but if i move it up and down with my hand. the pedal still stays down.

the engine was idleing perfect when this happened. once i turned it off it didnt turn again. like i said. i know something is wrong with the clutch but what would cause the frywheel to turn and not the engine.

palos · 06-06-2009, 12:17 PM

Can you actually see that the crank pulley is not turning when the starter is engaging the flywheel?

lude1888 · 06-06-2009, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fvillota

well it moves the slave but if i move it up and down with my hand. the pedal still stays down..

If clutch pedal falls to floor than master cyclinder is toast!

Ben · 06-06-2009, 08:41 PM

If the clutch pedal sticks to the floor, there is air in the system. Bleed the clutch and see if that corrects it. Otherwise, then it would be the master cylinder.

fvillota · 06-06-2009, 11:29 PM

but i dont understand... it moves the slave!
the slave has no pressure on it.

and my biggest convern is that the flywheel turns when i try to start but the engine doesnt seem to turn over.

palos · 06-07-2009, 12:16 AM

fvillota: You are requesting help, yet you refrain from answering questions to help with the diagnosis. You seem adamant that you know what isn't the problem, yet evidently have not tried to bleed the system or responded to inquiries regarding your statement that the flywheel turns but not the crank pulley.

It's frustrating.

tjmr2 · 06-07-2009, 12:24 AM

Bad Ju Ju here:

1. How are you determining the flywheel is turning when the starter is spinning?

2. Is the crank pulley on the passenger side of the engine turning when the starter is engaged?

Thought from way out there: If the starter will turn the flywheel, and will move the car in gear, but not turn over the engine (crank pulley will not turn) could the flywheel retaining bolts have broken and the flywheel be spinning on the crank? If that's the case the car should push around almost as easy in gear as out.

Do you have the stock flywheel and or clutch (pressure plate and disk)?

328FTW · 06-07-2009, 04:43 AM

I had a friends car do this and it had snapped the flywheel bolts...well actually they kinda fell out because he didn't do them up

Move the slave fork yourself and see if it has really little pressure on it and if you can move it freely back and forth by hand obviously somethings up. I would say you gearbox input shaft broke but your saying the starter won't spin engine? Try spinning the motor (uhh flywheel?) with the plugs out and seeing if the pistons move, if they don't you will need to drop the box and see whats up.

fvillota · 06-07-2009, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by palos

fvillota: You are requesting help, yet you refrain from answering questions to help with the diagnosis. You seem adamant that you know what isn't the problem, yet evidently have not tried to bleed the system or responded to inquiries regarding your statement that the flywheel turns but not the crank pulley.

It's frustrating.

i know bro. im sorry.

look i bleeded the system and no air in the line.

im sorry and thank you.

fvillota · 06-07-2009, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjmr2

Bad Ju Ju here:

1. How are you determining the flywheel is turning when the starter is spinning?

2. Is the crank pulley on the passenger side of the engine turning when the starter is engaged?

Thought from way out there: If the starter will turn the flywheel, and will move the car in gear, but not turn over the engine (crank pulley will not turn) could the flywheel retaining bolts have broken and the flywheel be spinning on the crank? If that's the case the car should push around almost as easy in gear as out.

Do you have the stock flywheel and or clutch (pressure plate and disk)?

The car gets in and out of gear normally. if i engage 1st gear and crank it, it moves.

i vertify the crank is not moving with the flywheel because i can see the flywheel and starter gear from the top if i look standing from the passanger side.

i made sure my timing belt was good and had my sister crank the car.
the starter comes out and turns the flywheel but the belts will not turn.

im guessing it is my flywheel bolts.

and im also gessing my pressure plater messed up in the process because there is almost no pressure on the fork. (unless it broke)

I have an exedy oem clutch kit and a brand new flywheel i bought when i did the swap.

fvillota · 06-07-2009, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 328FTW

I had a friends car do this and it had snapped the flywheel bolts...well actually they kinda fell out because he didn't do them up

Move the slave fork yourself and see if it has really little pressure on it and if you can move it freely back and forth by hand obviously somethings up. I would say you gearbox input shaft broke but your saying the starter won't spin engine? Try spinning the motor (uhh flywheel?) with the plugs out and seeing if the pistons move, if they don't you will need to drop the box and see whats up.

thanks for all the help man.
let me ask you
is it hard to removed the snapped bolts if thats my case?

palos · 06-07-2009, 11:46 AM

If you haven't removed the spark plugs as 328FTW suggested, see whether the pistons are turning when activating the starter. Perhaps you sheared the "key" holding the crankshaft pulley to the crankshaft.

tjmr2 · 06-07-2009, 01:06 PM

Every broken bolt is it's own unique problem, even in a situation such as yours might be. Some might just spin back out, some you might be able to grab with a pair of vise grips, and some will require being center drilled and an EZ Out.

They might have just worked their way out and be laying in the bottom of the bell housing.

I'd run a tap through all the holes in the crank that I couldn't thread in a bolt with my fingers to clean up the threads before trying to put the flywheel back on.

Do yourself a favor and only use new bolts when you reinstall the flywheel and use a good torque wrench to tighten everything down.

I had to make a flywheel holding bracket to stop it from turning when tightening the flywheel bolts.

Good luck!

fvillota · 06-07-2009, 02:51 PM

wel, as you'll all see when i upload . all bolts for the flywheel snapped!

guess i have to see what i can come up with to get the rest of the bolts off.

The bolts i had to put in for the swap were brand new from Toyota.
been about 1 year.
and torqued to spec.
i have a few questions.

why those the clutch have purple non it?

is this flywheel reusable if i resurface or do i just get a new one.

how come the clutch looks more abused in the outside then in the inside?

what could have caused all this?

you think the transmission being scratched like that could of been the clutch assembly slapping into it once the bolts snapped?\

i took pictures. im gonna upload the pictures tonight

palos · 06-07-2009, 03:06 PM

The purple on the clutch bolts most likely is Loctite.

We'll have to wait to see the pictures of the bolts, but the flywheel bolts may have been overtightened, and therefore stressed to fatigue. Had you just changed gears when it initially happened?

fvillota · 06-07-2009, 03:29 PM

i was going to but i didnt get to change i just noticed the pedal never came up.
the bolts are normal color. whats purple or has shades of purple is the clutch disk.

06-06-2009, 08:12 AM	#1 (permalink)
fvillota Cage Fighter Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: MIami Posts: 1,832 Thanks: 65 Thanked 28 Times in 28 Posts iTrader Rating: (6/100% )	got stranded last night. Clutch pedal lost pressure. need help plz. HI guys. I was on the highway last night and my car decided to stay in 5th gear and just rev like if it was in neutral. i pressed my clutch pedal to shift back out and se whats wrong but it never came back up. I pulled over and checked the master clutch and signs of leaks anywhere in the car. nothing. the master was full and no leaks at all. the pedal just was no pressure. i turned it off and tried to turn in back on and it sounds like the starter wont engage/ i tired putting it in gear and getting the starter to push the car to see if it was at least not engaged and my car moves forward very very slowly. but slips. does this mean i have a bad pressure plate? can the master or slave fail without any leaks? i have no choice but to pull the tranny down huh?

06-06-2009, 10:41 AM	#4 (permalink)
palos … Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 170 Thanks: 0 Thanked 20 Times in 18 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Based on the your third post, it sounds as though your timing belt may have broken or stripped its teeth, though your engine would not "rev" as you described in your first post. Look to see whether the crank is turning, but that the cams are not, when you turn the engine over with the starter. You also need to diagnose your clutch pedal problem. Try bleeding the slave and the master to see if you have air in the system. It is possible for a slave or master to not build pressure, essentially the brake fluid is bypassing the o-rings, without causing external leaks. Since the fork is now moving, air in the system may have been the cause for the pedal to stick to the floor. Last edited by palos; 06-06-2009 at 11:15 AM.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

06-06-2009, 09:08 AM	#2 (permalink)
fvillota Cage Fighter Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: MIami Posts: 1,832 Thanks: 65 Thanked 28 Times in 28 Posts iTrader Rating: (6/100% )	help me plzzz anyone?

06-06-2009, 10:10 AM	#3 (permalink)
fvillota Cage Fighter Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: MIami Posts: 1,832 Thanks: 65 Thanked 28 Times in 28 Posts iTrader Rating: (6/100% )	update! i checked to see if the fork was moving. it is. the master and slave seem to be working well. here is where it gets good. some how.. the starter moves the flywheel but does not turn the engine. has the back of the crank broken/ is that even possible? or is it more possible for the flywheel to break in the middle?

06-06-2009, 11:27 AM	#5 (permalink)
fvillota Cage Fighter Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: MIami Posts: 1,832 Thanks: 65 Thanked 28 Times in 28 Posts iTrader Rating: (6/100% )	well it moves the slave but if i move it up and down with my hand. the pedal still stays down. the engine was idleing perfect when this happened. once i turned it off it didnt turn again. like i said. i know something is wrong with the clutch but what would cause the frywheel to turn and not the engine.

06-06-2009, 12:17 PM	#6 (permalink)
palos … Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 170 Thanks: 0 Thanked 20 Times in 18 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Can you actually see that the crank pulley is not turning when the starter is engaging the flywheel?

06-06-2009, 08:41 PM	#8 (permalink)
Ben Same In The End Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Oceanside, CA / Reno, NV Posts: 3,929 Thanks: 18 Thanked 276 Times in 258 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (11/100% )	If the clutch pedal sticks to the floor, there is air in the system. Bleed the clutch and see if that corrects it. Otherwise, then it would be the master cylinder.

06-06-2009, 11:29 PM	#9 (permalink)
fvillota Cage Fighter Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: MIami Posts: 1,832 Thanks: 65 Thanked 28 Times in 28 Posts iTrader Rating: (6/100% )	but i dont understand... it moves the slave! the slave has no pressure on it. and my biggest convern is that the flywheel turns when i try to start but the engine doesnt seem to turn over.

06-07-2009, 12:16 AM	#10 (permalink)
palos … Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 170 Thanks: 0 Thanked 20 Times in 18 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	fvillota: You are requesting help, yet you refrain from answering questions to help with the diagnosis. You seem adamant that you know what isn't the problem, yet evidently have not tried to bleed the system or responded to inquiries regarding your statement that the flywheel turns but not the crank pulley. It's frustrating.

06-07-2009, 12:24 AM	#11 (permalink)
tjmr2 Cage Fighter Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 310 Thanks: 0 Thanked 49 Times in 46 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Bad Ju Ju here: 1. How are you determining the flywheel is turning when the starter is spinning? 2. Is the crank pulley on the passenger side of the engine turning when the starter is engaged? Thought from way out there: If the starter will turn the flywheel, and will move the car in gear, but not turn over the engine (crank pulley will not turn) could the flywheel retaining bolts have broken and the flywheel be spinning on the crank? If that's the case the car should push around almost as easy in gear as out. Do you have the stock flywheel and or clutch (pressure plate and disk)?

06-07-2009, 04:43 AM	#12 (permalink)
328FTW 3vzfe tinkering Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: New Zealand Posts: 1,538 Thanks: 12 Thanked 100 Times in 84 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	I had a friends car do this and it had snapped the flywheel bolts...well actually they kinda fell out because he didn't do them up Move the slave fork yourself and see if it has really little pressure on it and if you can move it freely back and forth by hand obviously somethings up. I would say you gearbox input shaft broke but your saying the starter won't spin engine? Try spinning the motor (uhh flywheel?) with the plugs out and seeing if the pistons move, if they don't you will need to drop the box and see whats up.

06-07-2009, 11:46 AM	#16 (permalink)
palos … Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 170 Thanks: 0 Thanked 20 Times in 18 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	If you haven't removed the spark plugs as 328FTW suggested, see whether the pistons are turning when activating the starter. Perhaps you sheared the "key" holding the crankshaft pulley to the crankshaft.

06-07-2009, 01:06 PM	#17 (permalink)
tjmr2 Cage Fighter Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 310 Thanks: 0 Thanked 49 Times in 46 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Every broken bolt is it's own unique problem, even in a situation such as yours might be. Some might just spin back out, some you might be able to grab with a pair of vise grips, and some will require being center drilled and an EZ Out. They might have just worked their way out and be laying in the bottom of the bell housing. I'd run a tap through all the holes in the crank that I couldn't thread in a bolt with my fingers to clean up the threads before trying to put the flywheel back on. Do yourself a favor and only use new bolts when you reinstall the flywheel and use a good torque wrench to tighten everything down. I had to make a flywheel holding bracket to stop it from turning when tightening the flywheel bolts. Good luck!

06-07-2009, 02:51 PM	#18 (permalink)
fvillota Cage Fighter Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: MIami Posts: 1,832 Thanks: 65 Thanked 28 Times in 28 Posts iTrader Rating: (6/100% )	wel, as you'll all see when i upload . all bolts for the flywheel snapped! guess i have to see what i can come up with to get the rest of the bolts off. The bolts i had to put in for the swap were brand new from Toyota. been about 1 year. and torqued to spec. i have a few questions. why those the clutch have purple non it? is this flywheel reusable if i resurface or do i just get a new one. how come the clutch looks more abused in the outside then in the inside? what could have caused all this? you think the transmission being scratched like that could of been the clutch assembly slapping into it once the bolts snapped?\ i took pictures. im gonna upload the pictures tonight

06-07-2009, 03:06 PM	#19 (permalink)
palos … Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 170 Thanks: 0 Thanked 20 Times in 18 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	The purple on the clutch bolts most likely is Loctite. We'll have to wait to see the pictures of the bolts, but the flywheel bolts may have been overtightened, and therefore stressed to fatigue. Had you just changed gears when it initially happened?

06-07-2009, 03:29 PM	#20 (permalink)
fvillota Cage Fighter Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: MIami Posts: 1,832 Thanks: 65 Thanked 28 Times in 28 Posts iTrader Rating: (6/100% )	i was going to but i didnt get to change i just noticed the pedal never came up. the bolts are normal color. whats purple or has shades of purple is the clutch disk.