Weird Problem.. Code 14

[lo2]

ok. my car has always ran great. just a little start up puff, which as i know is common and eats a tiny bit of oil at a time.
but today as i was leaving a friends house, the car started, then died and would not start. So i checked the oil level and it was almost empty. So i went and got some oil and filled it back up. After this the car would start, but as soon as i put it in reverse, the motor dies.. i checked for a cel code and got a code 14. the weird thing is that i can drive fine in every gear, but the second i put it in reverse, it dies again.

One other weird thing i found is in the pictures below. in the rear fuse box, where there is supposed to be a round EFI relay, there is instead a jumper, jumping the two wired i circled. Could this be part of it?

[lo2]

now engine wont start period...
and its just the stock 5sfe with 90k.
around the distributer also has some leaky oil marks.
& i think i have been getting pretty poor gas mileage...
aomeone HELP!

[mrjimmyx]

pictures and what code 14 is would help!

[muffinman]

isn't code 14:

Ignition signal (no "igf" signal to ecu, no signal from igniter 4 times in a row): igniter/igniter circuit; igniter and ignition coil/circuit; ECU

[lo2]

yep.
sorry about that.
i got a good efi relay but it still wont start.
& i checked for spark, and got nothing.

[CJMR2T]

The engine will not run with out a working EFI main relay...
Are you sure that the relay that you got is good?
Have you tried putting the jumper wire back in as it was and it still wont start?

If it'll start with the jumper and your positive that the new relay that you have is good, then its a wiring issue to the coil side of the relay.

If its not stating at all even with the jumper, then chances are its the code 14. This is going to be either the ignitor or the IGf signal wire from the ignitor to the ECU (or a very slip possibility that its in the ecu but this is pretty unlikely).

The code 14 (no igf signal) is a shut down code (for lack of better terms). If the ECU does not get the igf signal repeaditly, its shut down the injector triggers and the IGt signal thus shutting the enigine down. This is simple to prevent flooding of the engine. The IGf signal is simply a return signal telling the ECU that the ignition event for the last sent IGt signal has occured. In short, IGt signal tells the ignitor to fire the coil and IGf tells the ECU that it did.

[lo2]

im sure the relay is good. i tested it as specified in the bgb.
& i tried using the jumper and still a no go.
i got another igniter and ignition coil and it still would not start. but i dont kno if those parts were any good either.
Is there any way to test an igniter?
& btw there is no more code 14. it went away afer i replaced the efi relay..

[CJMR2T]

Just replacing the EFI relay shouldn't have eraced the code.. Unless you pulled the EFI fuse at some point during it all... To erace any codes, the BATT signal to the ECU has to be pulled and this comes directly from the 15A EFI fuse.....

So now with the jumper it still dont start... Hmmmm...

Does the ECU give you a "NORMAL" code (steady flashing) now if you try to pull codes?

As for the testing the ignitor, there should be a test proceedure in the BGB. If you cant find anything, I can tell you a way to do it. Its not really that hard to do on standard toyota ignitors. It just requiers a couple of lengths of wires, a standard 12v test light, a 12v powersupply (car batt) and a 3v supply (2 AA battery's do the trick).

[lo2]

another thing is that now when the key is turned to the "on" postition, only the oil light shows up.. no battery and no check engine. & when i connect e1 and te1 nothing happens at all.
& yes i had pulled the 15A EFI fuse a couple times and had disconnected the battery also.
I coulnt find anything on how to test the igniter in bgb either, so if you could tell me, that would be great

[CJMR2T]

Ok well before we worry about testing the igniter, we have another issue to worry about... That is why the MIL (check engine light) doesn't come on when you turn the key on. The MIL should ALWAYS come on for a few seconds when the key is first turned on. If its not turning on, then there is a problem either in the ECU or the ECU is not powering up.

First thing is check to make sure that your EFI fuse is not blown for some reason. If it is, then replace it and see what happens. (side note: I've seen fuses that looked fine but were blown so check the fuse with for continuity just to play it safe.

If the fuse is good, then your going to need to start checking a few signals at the ECU so your going to need a pin out of the ecu and volt meter.

1) check terminal E1, E01 and E02 for continuity with chassis ground. You should have continuity between all 3 of them with chassis ground. If not then you have a ground wiring issue.

If all have good ground, then

2) check for 12v at the BATT signal (if not present, then you have a wiring issue in the BATT supply, either wiring or this going back to the above with the EFI fuse being bad)

If you have 12v then

3) turn the key all the way on and check for 12v at +B and +B1. If no voltage to either, then we go back to either the EFI main relay or the wiring..

If all these items check out as they should, then you have all that is needed to power up the ECU and thus the problem is most likely in the ECU and you probably need a new unit.

If the above happens to be the case, before you get another ECU, fine someone that will let you test your ECU in thier car. Dont use thier's in yours just yet you could fry thier ECU in doing so if you have a problem else where that cause the ECU to fry. The ECU will not fry something else so its safer to test a suspect bad unit in a good running car to see if it'll run. If it does work in someone else's car then there is something else that is shutting down the ECU and I'll have to look into it more as to what could cause it. If it doesn't work in another car, then its deffinitly fried. This is the hard part now, if it is fried, did it just go out on its own or is there a problem on the your car that fried it???

Before we worry about that, let first find out if its bad or not....

[lo2]

thats alot of stuff. but ill do it and get back to you on here. ill definitely take a look at the efi fuse because i know its been replaced before.
oh, and i just got in from out there pokin around on the car, and while following bgb on page fi-32 for inspection of diagnostic system and i grounded terminal W to the body and only then the check engine light came on. So now what? do i just trace the E1 wire and check for shorts or improper connection?
&btw thanks for the help. i hope this thing gets runnin soon. its my dd

[CJMR2T]

Yeah, the ECU supplies the ground circuit for the MIL. Grounding the "W" terminal really only checks the circuit up to the ECU. If the ECU is not powering up, then it will not supply the ground and thus will not light the MIL.

If you notice, my step 1 is checking the E1 wiring for ground. The E1 terminal / wire should have good continuity to ground. If it doesn't, the ECU will not power up.

Basically, if E1 has good ground and BATT has +12v all the time and +B and +B1 have +12v when the key is on, then chances are, its a bad ECU.

The other thing and the reason why I say "if everything checks out OK then check your ECU in another car" is cause the ECU also has fail safe modes that will cause it to shut itself down if there is a vital circuit is shorted to prevent damage to the ECU. Most of the time though, this will still light the MIL so chance are, either you have a bad ECU, or a problem in the E1 ground path circuit, or a power supply issue to BATT, +B and +B1

On a side note, if I happen to mention a circuit that you cant seem to find, PLEASE point it out to me. Most of my knowledge is with Supra ECU's and Lexus V8 ECU's and there are a few vital signals like M-Rel and IGSW that dont exist in the 3s and 5s ECU's. Toyota TCCS ECU's that use Stepper Motors for Idle Speed Control use these two additional circuits and they are vital to "power up" (well more so to "shut down" to reset the IACV back to its home position for the next start up). I caught myself in my last post bringing them up and then remembered that you wouldn't have those two... So again, if I happen to mention a circuit that you cant seem to find or dont have make sure to let me know.

[lo2]

ok well i checked the e1 terminal for continuity with ground and it checked out ok.
but when i checked BATT to E1 it only read around 2 volts. Same with +b & +b1 to E1.
& my battery has a good charge.
Also i noticed that when i grounded the W terminal to the ground, the engine light comes on. but the battery light is still off.. but every now and again the battery light will be on, or flicker on and off..

[CJMR2T]

Try checking the BATT, +B and +B1 to chassis ground, not to E1.... If E1 has a bad connection, you might still show continuity but still have a large voltage drop.

If you still only get 2v when checking them against a chassis ground, then check at the EFI fuse and see if you still only have 2v or if you are getting battery voltage...

If your getting battery voltage at the fuse, then you have a wiring issue after after the fuse, and if your not getting battery voltage at the fuse, then you have a wiring issue before it.

[CJMR2T]

Oh, grounding the W terminal is only a check to make sure that the circuit is good up to the ECU. It has nothing to do with the battery light.

Any time you turn on the key, the battery light should come on and then go out once the engine is started.... The battery light is actually a misrepresentation of what it really is as it is not representive of the battery but rather the alternator.... Most all alternators have whats called a "Light Circuit", its a sensory circuit that monitors the alternators output voltage and anytime the alternators output voltage is below about 11.5v it completes a ground in the circuit thus turning on the light.

Manufactures feel that its easier for people to understand a battery symble then a alternator symble thus the reason for it being a battery symble.

EDIT: Oh some alternators actually output a voltage to turn the light on instead of supplying a ground....

[lo2]

yeah ive checked em all to the chassis ground too and it was still around 2v.
could this be because of the ecu?
& when i test volatge at the efi fuse, it reads 11.5 when the key is out of the ignition and 9.3ish volts when the key is at the on position.

[lo2]

and do you mean if it has a wiring issue after the fuse, it is between the fuse and battery or between the fuse and ecu?

[CJMR2T]

Is your battery @ 12.6v or higher???

Are your connections on the battery Clean & Tight???

Is the ground cable from the battery Clean & Tight where it connects to the body???

If so, and your only getting 11.5v and @ the EFI fuse when checked against a good chassis ground, then you have a wiring issue between it and the battery...

You should get battery voltage At the fuse and at the ECU.

The ECU has nothing to do with a voltage drop up to it.

Whether the ECU is there of not, you should get battery voltage @ the BATT terminal on the ECU all the time and you should get battery voltage @ +B and +B1 with the key on.

If you are not getting Full battery voltage at those terminals, then you need to trace the circuits back to were you finally get Full battery voltage barring your battery connections and main ground connection (comming from the battery) is good.

[lo2]

ill be tracing the wiring to see about this, because i believe now it is a wiring issue.
you my friend, sure do know alot

[CJMR2T]

Originally Posted by lo2

ill be tracing the wiring to see about this, because i believe now it is a wiring issue.
you my friend, sure do know alot

Thanks man.... Im just here to help in anyway possible and to learn things I do not know that are MR2 specific and not just general to Toyota or what not...... Automotive wiring is one area that I excell at...

Best thing to do is start checking at the battery. What ever voltage you get at the battery is what you should get everywhere along the circuit. As soon as you find a spot that you no longer have full battery voltage (or very close too it), then somewhere inbetween that spot and the previous spot is where you have a problem.

Also, Make sure to look at the actual wiring diagram and not just the basic circuit layout like whats in the above post. There is atleast one harness to harness connector that I recall that has that circuit in it. IIRC, its the IE2 connector in the Left kick panel. It should be a single wire plug with a fairly heavy gauge Black with Red tracer wire in it. This wire is that supply wire to the engine room.......