Weapon-R Secret Weapon Intake - Page 3

runabout93 · 08-08-2007, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baktasht

Just an FYI. The foam filters have been tested and shown to be inferior to the cone type filters.

I think foam filters allow more airflow... I've never seen anything to argue that? However, deterioration is a problem. The filter gets clogged more quickly and eventually allows particles to pass though. Cleaning usually doesn't bring the filter back to its original state. Because the open cell structure begins to fail. Essentially the holes get larger and larger.

If you have an actual (un-bias) study that confirms your statement... please post it. All of the information I have found is regurgitated K&N information... or information from other manufactures who will tell you anything to buy their product over the next.

runabout93 · 08-08-2007, 01:47 PM

Sorry... I just read my last post and realized it sounded like an attack. I didnt mean for it to be worded that way. I just meant it would be helpful for real world information and proof to be added.

Just to clarify... I agree with you. IMO, Foam filters are inferior.

Bak@EMSPowered · 08-08-2007, 02:07 PM

They foam filters dont flow better than the cone type filters (at least not enough to show any measurable gains. But they do filter EXTREMELY BAD compared to other filters, even when they're new.

A large cone filter is a good option. Even better is a "dual cone" type filter which typically increases surface area by abour 40-50% depending on the particular filter.

Here is a test that was done long ago on a few leading filter/intake setups. You can see the results of their tests:
http://mkiv.com/techarticles/filters_test/2/index.html

sickof5sfe · 08-08-2007, 03:15 PM

that's one thing i sorta liked about weapon R's design..they designed their filter to take in a buncha air from the front...hks' foam design i heard is entire crap and looks like a nasty hornets nest at the same time

runabout93 · 08-08-2007, 10:41 PM

Okay, I stand corrected.. BobIsTheOilGuy say's the foam filters flows better than paper filters... but, K&N flows more than all. But, marginally so. That Bob guy is quite the scientist!
BobIsTheOilGuy - Air Filtration Test

Some more good reading from Bob: BobIsTheOilGuy

Here's some other good info about performance filters, in box, and open filtration.
Tuning Linx - Performance Air Filters

I'ld go with Apexi for both the test results and the design. If that's possible?

runabout93 · 08-25-2007, 10:48 AM

Well it's been a while since I posted.. I've been too busy figuring out what to do with this intake. I've tried several configurations now and have taken a few pictures of them and detailed some of my findings.

First I tried connecting it to the OEM intake tubing... I hated this and quickly took it off. But, I noticed some of my low end power was gone and it made a strange whistling sound at WOT. I figured the whistling had to do with the half-ass connection to the OEM rubber tube. Then I tried connecting the intake directly to the TB again. Just like the instructions detailed. But, it doesnt fit good this way. Forgot my camera at work that day so didnt take any pictures.
-[sorry no pics]-

So, I decided to go shopping. I bought a 90degree coupler reducer some clamps and a 7" aluminum intake pipe off ebay. I had a flex coupler already and put it together like this. This configuration made a nice deep tone and the whistling was gone. However, I lost more low end power. It felt like I was trying to build up boost. But, of course, that was never coming. However, my butt dyno thinks their was a slight increase in power in the higher rpm range. However, what good is that with the short rpm range of the 5sfe.... not useful to me anyway.

Well, I went back to the drawing board and came up with this configuration. I basically cut the intake pipe down to 2" so the 2 couplers could join together. I really like the looks of this and the sound is perfect. It has a bad-ass growl sound when I get on the thottle and it is near quiet at cruizing speed. But, it has the same problems as before... nothing in the low rpm range. However, it is a little less noticeable now.

weapon-r-secret-weapon-intake-intake_2nddesign_fullshot.jpg

Well, I think i've exhuasted all options for this intake so I'm leaving it like this for now. I added in some more pictures of how it mounts. But, you can also see that it is right where it is supposed to go... right to the edge of the vents.

weapon-r-secret-weapon-intake-intake_2nddesign_mounting.jpg

You can see here that it just barely clears the coolant line. I'll have to flip the clamps around.

weapon-r-secret-weapon-intake-intake_2nddesign_justclears.jpg

So, in conculstion, I am almost positive that a 3" intake is not suited for the 5sfe. It is way too big. I will be shopping again for some 2.5" pipe and couplers and see how that works out. I also ordered an Apexi cone filter and will post my results again. I think ultimately I will end up selling this 3" intake and sticking with a 2.5" Well, that's my guess right now.

An interesting thing to note... I noticed a drastic drop in engine compartment temps. I haven't taken actual temp readings. But, it is noticeable when I open the engine lid after taking a hard drive. It must be from all of the damn plastic I removed. It isn't over-crowding the engine bay anymore and the lower part of the vent can flow easier. I also think it is quieter inside the car... I think the plastic was acting like a speaker and resonating inside the cockpit... Or maybe I'm just imagining all of this??

sickof5sfe · 08-25-2007, 03:44 PM

Wow..you had entirely different results than me! My setup was short and sweet and i noticed an improvement in all RPM ranges especially at high end..and my interior definitly did not get quieter...I love the sound it produces

Bak@EMSPowered · 08-25-2007, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sickof5sfe

Wow..you had entirely different results than me! My setup was short and sweet and i noticed an improvement in all RPM ranges especially at high end..and my interior definitly did not get quieter...I love the sound it produces

Is yours a 3", 2.75" or 2.5"?

sickof5sfe · 08-25-2007, 06:51 PM

it's 3" my picture is on here somewhere..I barely used any piping though which could make for some of the difference

TomsMR2 · 08-27-2007, 12:28 AM

ive tested a million intakes, short 2.5 works best. you WILL notice a difference from a long crappy 3.0 inch intake to a short 2.5 inch intake.

theres zero power to gain from the filter. run a decent one that filters and call it a day.

Bak@EMSPowered · 08-27-2007, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomsMR2

ive tested a million intakes, short 2.5 works best. you WILL notice a difference from a long crappy 3.0 inch intake to a short 2.5 inch intake.

theres zero power to gain from the filter. run a decent one that filters and call it a day.

What do you consider short?

runabout93 · 08-27-2007, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sickof5sfe

Wow..you had entirely different results than me! My setup was short and sweet and i noticed an improvement in all RPM ranges especially at high end..and my interior definitly did not get quieter...I love the sound it produces

Yeah... I was suprised too. But, it is really minimal at the lower rpm range. And like I said before, it might all be in my head. Because it makes this crazy growl of power sound that doesnt match the seat of my pants. ...And it's only quieter when cruiz'n at no throttle. However, that could be because I like the sound of the intake??? It's more pleasant to hear that then the engine/exhaust?

Quote:

Originally Posted by sickof5sfe

it's 3" my picture is on here somewhere..I barely used any piping though which could make for some of the difference

I think all of the weapon R intakes are 3"? I didnt use any piping in the end either... it's comining off of the tb inlet and then connecting to the full length of the pipe. Oh... but you were the one who cut the WR pipe down. Yeah, that would make a difference.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomsMR2

ive tested a million intakes, short 2.5 works best. you WILL notice a difference from a long crappy 3.0 inch intake to a short 2.5 inch intake. theres zero power to gain from the filter. run a decent one that filters and call it a day.

That's what I was thinking... 2.5" will be perfect. And the throttle response was defnitely better as the intake was shortened. I've read over and over again that the Apexi flows and filters the best. But, filtration is my main concern.... because all of these high flow filters are terrible at filtering. I guess using common sense means: the more flow... the less filtration.

MR2TRD1 · 08-27-2007, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by runabout93

Yeah... I was suprised too. But, it is really minimal at the lower rpm range. And like I said before, it might all be in my head. Because it makes this crazy growl of power sound that doesnt match the seat of my pants. ...And it's only quieter when cruiz'n at no throttle. However, that could be because I like the sound of the intake??? It's more pleasant to hear that then the engine/exhaust?

I think all of the weapon R intakes are 3"? I didnt use any piping in the end either... it's comining off of the tb inlet and then connecting to the full length of the pipe. Oh... but you were the one who cut the WR pipe down. Yeah, that would make a difference.

That's what I was thinking... 2.5" will be perfect. And the throttle response was defnitely better as the intake was shortened. I've read over and over again that the Apexi flows and filters the best. But, filtration is my main concern.... because all of these high flow filters are terrible at filtering. I guess using common sense means: the more flow... the less filtration.

Why are you so concerned? Any of those filters will provide adequate protection. The amount of debris a high flow filter will let in isn't enough to harm anything.

runabout93 · 08-27-2007, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MR2TRD1

Why are you so concerned? Any of those filters will provide adequate protection. The amount of debris a high flow filter will let in isn't enough to harm anything.

Well, I'm not really "so" concerned... just more concerned about filtration then flow. From everything I read there is not enough difference in flow to make any real-world differenced between any high flow filter. I just figured Apexi is supposed to be good at both, it is around the same price as a K&N at the local parts store, and it is a dry-type of filter. Actually, the zero maintenance oil free dryfilter was the most important reason for my decision. Plus, It's a better design than everything I have seen.

Don't Worry, It's Just Me · 08-27-2007, 12:02 PM

then you must either get a good deal on the Apexi or your gettin ****ed for that K&N, cuz by my house i can get a K&N for about $60, but if you look at Cardomain.com they want ****in $120 for the apexi.

runabout93 · 08-27-2007, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don't Worry, It's Just Me

then you must either get a good deal on the Apexi or your gettin ****ed for that K&N, cuz by my house i can get a K&N for about $60, but if you look at Cardomain.com they want ****in $120 for the apexi.

Woh... settle down brotha! Here it is from Cardomain for $70 It's $50ish for the filter... but, costs more for the reguired flange.
Apexi filter with flange

K&N was about $65 last time I went looking at AutoZone or VIP?... and they didnt have the right one on the shelf (4" connector). So, I made the mistake of asking... and they were being a tool about it... They were actually trying to look it up by year and model. Which is only going to return the drop-in filter if you are lucky. They can't find a damn thing if its not made speicfically your vehicle and shows up on their computer.

Don't Worry, It's Just Me · 08-27-2007, 12:47 PM

ok now i see why that Apexi is that much for you, i went and looked for what is specified for a MR2, not universal.

runabout93 · 08-27-2007, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don't Worry, It's Just Me

ok now i see why that Apexi is that much for you, i went and looked for what is specified for a MR2, not universal.

oh... That's the one for the turbo. I think it comes with some kind of heavy-duty metal connector for the AFM.

Don't Worry, It's Just Me · 08-27-2007, 12:58 PM

oh ok i see i see

o0_disel_0o · 08-27-2007, 01:28 PM

glad i looked at this topic ive bin looking at all the pics of the attempted fittings n couldnt quite put my finger on why ur bay looked so different to mine,so i went out n looked in my bay turns out the guy that id brought the car from hadnt taken off the stock air box when he fitted the filter so ive spent the last half hour sorting that out

08-08-2007, 10:41 PM	#45 (permalink)
runabout93 Cage Fighter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Vermont Posts: 359 Thanks: 25 Thanked 42 Times in 9 Posts iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	Okay, I stand corrected.. BobIsTheOilGuy say's the foam filters flows better than paper filters... but, K&N flows more than all. But, marginally so. That Bob guy is quite the scientist! BobIsTheOilGuy - Air Filtration Test Some more good reading from Bob: BobIsTheOilGuy Here's some other good info about performance filters, in box, and open filtration. Tuning Linx - Performance Air Filters I'ld go with Apexi for both the test results and the design. If that's possible? Last edited by runabout93; 08-08-2007 at 10:59 PM..

08-25-2007, 10:48 AM	#46 (permalink)
runabout93 Cage Fighter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Vermont Posts: 359 Thanks: 25 Thanked 42 Times in 9 Posts iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	Well it's been a while since I posted.. I've been too busy figuring out what to do with this intake. I've tried several configurations now and have taken a few pictures of them and detailed some of my findings. First I tried connecting it to the OEM intake tubing... I hated this and quickly took it off. But, I noticed some of my low end power was gone and it made a strange whistling sound at WOT. I figured the whistling had to do with the half-ass connection to the OEM rubber tube. Then I tried connecting the intake directly to the TB again. Just like the instructions detailed. But, it doesnt fit good this way. Forgot my camera at work that day so didnt take any pictures. -[sorry no pics]- So, I decided to go shopping. I bought a 90degree coupler reducer some clamps and a 7" aluminum intake pipe off ebay. I had a flex coupler already and put it together like this. This configuration made a nice deep tone and the whistling was gone. However, I lost more low end power. It felt like I was trying to build up boost. But, of course, that was never coming. However, my butt dyno thinks their was a slight increase in power in the higher rpm range. However, what good is that with the short rpm range of the 5sfe.... not useful to me anyway. Well, I went back to the drawing board and came up with this configuration. I basically cut the intake pipe down to 2" so the 2 couplers could join together. I really like the looks of this and the sound is perfect. It has a bad-ass growl sound when I get on the thottle and it is near quiet at cruizing speed. But, it has the same problems as before... nothing in the low rpm range. However, it is a little less noticeable now. Well, I think i've exhuasted all options for this intake so I'm leaving it like this for now. I added in some more pictures of how it mounts. But, you can also see that it is right where it is supposed to go... right to the edge of the vents. You can see here that it just barely clears the coolant line. I'll have to flip the clamps around. So, in conculstion, I am almost positive that a 3" intake is not suited for the 5sfe. It is way too big. I will be shopping again for some 2.5" pipe and couplers and see how that works out. I also ordered an Apexi cone filter and will post my results again. I think ultimately I will end up selling this 3" intake and sticking with a 2.5" Well, that's my guess right now. An interesting thing to note... I noticed a drastic drop in engine compartment temps. I haven't taken actual temp readings. But, it is noticeable when I open the engine lid after taking a hard drive. It must be from all of the damn plastic I removed. It isn't over-crowding the engine bay anymore and the lower part of the vent can flow easier. I also think it is quieter inside the car... I think the plastic was acting like a speaker and resonating inside the cockpit... Or maybe I'm just imagining all of this??

08-27-2007, 12:28 AM	#50 (permalink)
TomsMR2 Still not heraldo. Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Pineapple under the sea Posts: 4,912 Thanks: 18 Thanked 406 Times in 303 Posts Blog Entries: 1 iTrader Rating: (4/100% )	ive tested a million intakes, short 2.5 works best. you WILL notice a difference from a long crappy 3.0 inch intake to a short 2.5 inch intake. theres zero power to gain from the filter. run a decent one that filters and call it a day. __________________ Science fact: If you took all the veins from your body and laid them end to end, you would die.

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08-08-2007, 01:47 PM	#42 (permalink)
runabout93 Cage Fighter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Vermont Posts: 359 Thanks: 25 Thanked 42 Times in 9 Posts iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	Sorry... I just read my last post and realized it sounded like an attack. I didnt mean for it to be worded that way. I just meant it would be helpful for real world information and proof to be added. Just to clarify... I agree with you. IMO, Foam filters are inferior.

08-08-2007, 02:07 PM	#43 (permalink)
Bak@EMSPowered Banned Seller Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 5,925 Thanks: 30 Thanked 193 Times in 165 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (49/93% )	They foam filters dont flow better than the cone type filters (at least not enough to show any measurable gains. But they do filter EXTREMELY BAD compared to other filters, even when they're new. A large cone filter is a good option. Even better is a "dual cone" type filter which typically increases surface area by abour 40-50% depending on the particular filter. Here is a test that was done long ago on a few leading filter/intake setups. You can see the results of their tests: http://mkiv.com/techarticles/filters_test/2/index.html

08-08-2007, 03:15 PM	#44 (permalink)
sickof5sfe doing a secret build >:D Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Richfield Minnesota Posts: 364 Thanks: 11 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	that's one thing i sorta liked about weapon R's design..they designed their filter to take in a buncha air from the front...hks' foam design i heard is entire crap and looks like a nasty hornets nest at the same time

08-25-2007, 03:44 PM	#47 (permalink)
sickof5sfe doing a secret build >:D Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Richfield Minnesota Posts: 364 Thanks: 11 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	Wow..you had entirely different results than me! My setup was short and sweet and i noticed an improvement in all RPM ranges especially at high end..and my interior definitly did not get quieter...I love the sound it produces

08-25-2007, 06:51 PM	#49 (permalink)
sickof5sfe doing a secret build >:D Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Richfield Minnesota Posts: 364 Thanks: 11 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	it's 3" my picture is on here somewhere..I barely used any piping though which could make for some of the difference

08-27-2007, 12:02 PM	#55 (permalink)
Don't Worry, It's Just Me I'll have skills someday! Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Hopkins, MN Posts: 923 Thanks: 23 Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts iTrader Rating: (5/100% )	then you must either get a good deal on the Apexi or your gettin **ed for that K&N, cuz by my house i can get a K&N for about $60, but if you look at Cardomain.com they want **in $120 for the apexi.

08-27-2007, 12:47 PM	#57 (permalink)
Don't Worry, It's Just Me I'll have skills someday! Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Hopkins, MN Posts: 923 Thanks: 23 Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts iTrader Rating: (5/100% )	ok now i see why that Apexi is that much for you, i went and looked for what is specified for a MR2, not universal.

08-27-2007, 12:58 PM	#59 (permalink)
Don't Worry, It's Just Me I'll have skills someday! Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Hopkins, MN Posts: 923 Thanks: 23 Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts iTrader Rating: (5/100% )	oh ok i see i see

08-27-2007, 01:28 PM	#60 (permalink)
o0_disel_0o No Skills Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 19 Thanks: 4 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	glad i looked at this topic ive bin looking at all the pics of the attempted fittings n couldnt quite put my finger on why ur bay looked so different to mine,so i went out n looked in my bay turns out the guy that id brought the car from hadnt taken off the stock air box when he fitted the filter so ive spent the last half hour sorting that out