300rwhp 5sfte

nutty1 · 10-15-2007, 08:26 PM

is it possible to get 300rwhp on 5sfte ?

if so
what mods are needed ?

Final13 · 10-15-2007, 09:43 PM

I dont think that you can get that high without forced induction, and if you could the price to do it would far exceed even the most expensive swap several times over. As much as I would like to have that particular magic number for my own 5sfe, I dont think that its really going to be doable considering the alternatives...There are alot of people using the block from a 5s to get some great numbers but those motors, as far as I can tell, hardly resemble a 5s when everything is said and done...I think a more realistic number might be skirting around 200 without forced induction. You could get that number pretty easily with a 5sfte, (turbo 5sfe) but once again cost is something to consider. The most obvious thing to do is aggressive cams, but that is a 700 dollar bolt on...and without significant engine management, you are only going to get so far. I have thought of mating a 3s head with a 5s block, the prob here is alot of pricey machine work and being forced to get new pistons and such. Also there arent any things I have read about the successfulness or reliability of this particular combo. Someone else may have somethings different to say but I am basically regurgitating what I have either read here in response to my own questions or from other sources.

The 5sfte is pretty reasonable with some work, http://www.mr2.com/kb/index.php?article=10
That should give you an idea of what you are up against if the 5sfte is something you are willing to do.

Final13 · 10-15-2007, 09:55 PM

Strengths and Weeknesses
Modifications

Check those out...

Also, doing some math here
Stock 5s, 135, plus cams, maybe 30ish, IHE, 20ish, thats 185 NA horsepower. (Generous HP #'s)
On the cheap end of things thats roughly 1000 dollars or 18 dollars a horse. Throw a piggy back in there for about 400 or so more and maybe a little port and polish here and there. Then you would have a pretty reliable tuned motor crankin out about 200 horses without significant engine work or having to tear anything out. (Other than cams) Total cost b/w 1500 and 2000 dollars (If you do most of the work yourself) Thats just me guessing however, someone else here may chime in with more accurate info

VeilsideMR2 · 10-15-2007, 10:17 PM

hes right, to get those numbers on the 5sfe would b almost impossible, and just straight out crazy... believe me, i have been wanting to get that outta my 5sfe, but i dont even know where to start... swapping is ur best bet

nutty1 · 10-16-2007, 01:52 AM

..i hear so many ideas about the possibilties of a turboing a 5sfe and making it more powerful than the 3sgte because its a 2.2L vs 2.0 ...but i have not seen any dyno numbers to prove that. i even looked at the camry with 5sfe and turbo kit...haven't seen any one get more than 200rwhp

Final13 · 10-16-2007, 02:03 AM

I think Gen I turbos are the only ones similarly compared to...the gen III have somewhere close to 250...but either way, 200 is going to be significantly better than the 135...

TomsMR2 · 10-16-2007, 04:56 AM

.... the 5sfte record is 500RWHP and it ran a 10 second 1/4 mile.

300 is cake..

Bak@EMSPowered · 10-16-2007, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomsMR2

.... the 5sfte record is 500RWHP and it ran a 10 second 1/4 mile.

300 is cake..

was that on a 5s head, or a 3s head?

TomsMR2 · 10-16-2007, 07:21 AM

5s head. straight up 5sfte! mike colons car.

PearlJammzz · 10-16-2007, 08:15 AM

dyno/video or this thread is useless...

nutty1 · 10-16-2007, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PearlJammzz

dyno/video or this thread is useless...

true...where's the dyno info?...i got a 5sfe i want to get those numbers too

Final13 · 10-16-2007, 01:57 PM

Ok Toms, I have heard rumors of those numbers but once again what did that cost? Nutty1 I dont know what you are planning on spending but I want those numbers as mush as the next cat with a 5s but reality comes into play too, Im sure a big turbo with enough engine management will get you there, but once you get that high axles and trannys come in to play as well. If there was somewhere around 50 horse to, I dont know, 1000 dollar ratio modding might become something to consider...I am looking at the local Pull-a-Part for sourcing old 5s blocks and cranks to eventually mate with a 3s head sourced prolly from here somewhere, Then using more aggresive cams and tuning to see what i can get out of an na motor...It depends on you, really sky is the limit if budget isnt a concern...

nutty1 · 10-16-2007, 02:06 PM

i got a 5s ,and wondering if i can get 300rwhp..with $3,500 worth of mods...will the engine blow up? or should i just get a 3sgte clip.... just trying to see what is possible and feasible

PearlJammzz · 10-16-2007, 02:55 PM

get a clip, 3500 bucks will get you about to what a stock 3sgte is. Go buy a gen3 clip, and enjoy yer 250 horse

. Then when you get money, drump 3500 into that and have ~350-400 horse.

5S is through and through an economy motor, don't waste your time unless you have lots of money and just wanna break a record...

Gairloch · 10-16-2007, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PearlJammzz

dyno/video or this thread is useless...

I don't know if this is 5sfte or when he switched to 3sgte after he blew it up but here.

http://www.mr2.com/forums/drag-racin...eos.html#links

Tom knows what he's talking about you ingrates. He's not some asshat coming in here trying to feed you pipe dreams.

I guarantee you that Mike Colon spent at least as much on his 5sfte as he would have on a 3sgte. Big power is bigger money and the higher you go the more it's going to break. If budget is your primary concern for you then you have no business chasing it.

For 300 whp check out the power primer to see what it'll take to get there with a 3sgte or look at a v6 swap and mod. Money wise it's just not worth trying to get a 5sfe there.

MR2_Josh · 10-16-2007, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomsMR2

5s head. straight up 5sfte! mike colons car.

Yup and he was actually the quickest MR2 in the US down the quarter mile for a while.

As Tom said, 300whp would be cake but not worth it IMO. If you want to go turbo do it with the engine and car that TOYOTA designed.

MR2_Josh · 10-16-2007, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Final13

Ok Toms, I have heard rumors of those numbers but once again what did that cost? Nutty1 I dont know what you are planning on spending but I want those numbers as mush as the next cat with a 5s but reality comes into play too, Im sure a big turbo with enough engine management will get you there, but once you get that high axles and trannys come in to play as well. If there was somewhere around 50 horse to, I dont know, 1000 dollar ratio modding might become something to consider...I am looking at the local Pull-a-Part for sourcing old 5s blocks and cranks to eventually mate with a 3s head sourced prolly from here somewhere, Then using more aggresive cams and tuning to see what i can get out of an na motor...It depends on you, really sky is the limit if budget isnt a concern...

No rumors, it's all true. You guys are just too new around here to know who Mike Colon is and what he did with his car. He's now swapped to a 3sgte and is among the leaders in hp output.

That was in the days of Aaron Fowler, Jim Snodgrass, etc. The pioneers of the 5sfe performance. Too bad they have gone their ways. I haven't chatted with Aaron in a LOOONG time (2 years) but cool guy and new his stuff. He actually painted (by air brush) Mike Colons car and did a sick job too!

I'll see if I can dig up some info on it but I doubt I can link it cause it's from MR2 OC.

PearlJammzz · 10-16-2007, 05:06 PM

Well I still wanna see dyno and videos

, and I vote for asshat being blocked... ****'s FTW!

MR2_Josh · 10-16-2007, 05:14 PM

Well I'm having trouble finding my old links to his 5sfte days and his drag runs with it but I did find MRturrari's link below.

A good link for you 5sfe guys. Turbocharging a 5S-FE

TomsMR2 · 10-16-2007, 05:15 PM

mike colon ditched his 500whp 5sfte for a ~550 (? around there)whp gen3 3sgte. when asked what it takes to build a 500whp 5sfe, he said the same thing it takes to build any other 500whp 2L 4cyl. he was also on the stock valves

when you're making power like that you replace everything, including fuel systems and management.

another 5sfte guy, "manny" is making almost 300 ft/lbs on a bone stock engine, with stock cams! its not a question of weather the engine will make that kind of power, because it can, has, and will continue to. all of the fastest mr2's in the united states have used 5s parts, either the block or crank or both.

for 300hp, going 3sgte saves you from having to swap cams.. but even on the 3sgte 300whp means a new fuel system and many opt for new management too, and still many opt for forged rebuilds. the point is making power is expensive regardless of what you start with, some engines are just marginally easier.

10-15-2007, 08:26 PM	#1 (permalink)
nutty1 trading luck for skills Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: houston, tx Posts: 159 Thanks: 4 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	300rwhp 5sfte is it possible to get 300rwhp on 5sfte ? if so what mods are needed ?

10-15-2007, 09:55 PM	#3 (permalink)
Final13 Cage Fighter Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tennessee Posts: 383 Thanks: 6 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Strengths and Weeknesses Modifications Check those out... Also, doing some math here Stock 5s, 135, plus cams, maybe 30ish, IHE, 20ish, thats 185 NA horsepower. (Generous HP #'s) On the cheap end of things thats roughly 1000 dollars or 18 dollars a horse. Throw a piggy back in there for about 400 or so more and maybe a little port and polish here and there. Then you would have a pretty reliable tuned motor crankin out about 200 horses without significant engine work or having to tear anything out. (Other than cams) Total cost b/w 1500 and 2000 dollars (If you do most of the work yourself) Thats just me guessing however, someone else here may chime in with more accurate info Last edited by Final13; 10-15-2007 at 10:12 PM..

10-16-2007, 04:56 AM	#7 (permalink)
TomsMR2 Still not heraldo. Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Pineapple under the sea Posts: 4,911 Thanks: 18 Thanked 406 Times in 303 Posts Blog Entries: 1 iTrader Rating: (4/100% )	.... the 5sfte record is 500RWHP and it ran a 10 second 1/4 mile. 300 is cake.. __________________ Science fact: If you took all the veins from your body and laid them end to end, you would die.

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10-15-2007, 09:43 PM	#2 (permalink)
Final13 Cage Fighter Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tennessee Posts: 383 Thanks: 6 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	I dont think that you can get that high without forced induction, and if you could the price to do it would far exceed even the most expensive swap several times over. As much as I would like to have that particular magic number for my own 5sfe, I dont think that its really going to be doable considering the alternatives...There are alot of people using the block from a 5s to get some great numbers but those motors, as far as I can tell, hardly resemble a 5s when everything is said and done...I think a more realistic number might be skirting around 200 without forced induction. You could get that number pretty easily with a 5sfte, (turbo 5sfe) but once again cost is something to consider. The most obvious thing to do is aggressive cams, but that is a 700 dollar bolt on...and without significant engine management, you are only going to get so far. I have thought of mating a 3s head with a 5s block, the prob here is alot of pricey machine work and being forced to get new pistons and such. Also there arent any things I have read about the successfulness or reliability of this particular combo. Someone else may have somethings different to say but I am basically regurgitating what I have either read here in response to my own questions or from other sources. The 5sfte is pretty reasonable with some work, http://www.mr2.com/kb/index.php?article=10 That should give you an idea of what you are up against if the 5sfte is something you are willing to do.

10-15-2007, 10:17 PM	#4 (permalink)
VeilsideMR2 91' N/A BeAsT Join Date: May 2007 Location: Jersey/Boston Posts: 212 Thanks: 3 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	hes right, to get those numbers on the 5sfe would b almost impossible, and just straight out crazy... believe me, i have been wanting to get that outta my 5sfe, but i dont even know where to start... swapping is ur best bet

10-16-2007, 01:52 AM	#5 (permalink)
nutty1 trading luck for skills Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: houston, tx Posts: 159 Thanks: 4 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	..i hear so many ideas about the possibilties of a turboing a 5sfe and making it more powerful than the 3sgte because its a 2.2L vs 2.0 ...but i have not seen any dyno numbers to prove that. i even looked at the camry with 5sfe and turbo kit...haven't seen any one get more than 200rwhp

10-16-2007, 02:03 AM	#6 (permalink)
Final13 Cage Fighter Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tennessee Posts: 383 Thanks: 6 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	I think Gen I turbos are the only ones similarly compared to...the gen III have somewhere close to 250...but either way, 200 is going to be significantly better than the 135...

10-16-2007, 07:21 AM	#9 (permalink)
TomsMR2 Still not heraldo. Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Pineapple under the sea Posts: 4,911 Thanks: 18 Thanked 406 Times in 303 Posts Blog Entries: 1 iTrader Rating: (4/100% )	5s head. straight up 5sfte! mike colons car.

10-16-2007, 08:15 AM	#10 (permalink)
PearlJammzz Cage Fighter Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 2,115 Thanks: 9 Thanked 74 Times in 69 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (7/100% )	dyno/video or this thread is useless...

10-16-2007, 01:57 PM	#12 (permalink)
Final13 Cage Fighter Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tennessee Posts: 383 Thanks: 6 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Ok Toms, I have heard rumors of those numbers but once again what did that cost? Nutty1 I dont know what you are planning on spending but I want those numbers as mush as the next cat with a 5s but reality comes into play too, Im sure a big turbo with enough engine management will get you there, but once you get that high axles and trannys come in to play as well. If there was somewhere around 50 horse to, I dont know, 1000 dollar ratio modding might become something to consider...I am looking at the local Pull-a-Part for sourcing old 5s blocks and cranks to eventually mate with a 3s head sourced prolly from here somewhere, Then using more aggresive cams and tuning to see what i can get out of an na motor...It depends on you, really sky is the limit if budget isnt a concern...

10-16-2007, 02:06 PM	#13 (permalink)
nutty1 trading luck for skills Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: houston, tx Posts: 159 Thanks: 4 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	i got a 5s ,and wondering if i can get 300rwhp..with $3,500 worth of mods...will the engine blow up? or should i just get a 3sgte clip.... just trying to see what is possible and feasible

10-16-2007, 02:55 PM	#14 (permalink)
PearlJammzz Cage Fighter Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 2,115 Thanks: 9 Thanked 74 Times in 69 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (7/100% )	get a clip, 3500 bucks will get you about to what a stock 3sgte is. Go buy a gen3 clip, and enjoy yer 250 horse . Then when you get money, drump 3500 into that and have ~350-400 horse. 5S is through and through an economy motor, don't waste your time unless you have lots of money and just wanna break a record...

10-16-2007, 05:06 PM	#18 (permalink)
PearlJammzz Cage Fighter Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 2,115 Thanks: 9 Thanked 74 Times in 69 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (7/100% )	Well I still wanna see dyno and videos , and I vote for asshat being blocked... ****'s FTW!

10-16-2007, 05:14 PM	#19 (permalink)
MR2_Josh Addicted to meth Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Lawrence, KS Posts: 914 Thanks: 6 Thanked 17 Times in 15 Posts iTrader Rating: (8/90% )	Well I'm having trouble finding my old links to his 5sfte days and his drag runs with it but I did find MRturrari's link below. A good link for you 5sfe guys. Turbocharging a 5S-FE

10-16-2007, 05:15 PM	#20 (permalink)
TomsMR2 Still not heraldo. Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Pineapple under the sea Posts: 4,911 Thanks: 18 Thanked 406 Times in 303 Posts Blog Entries: 1 iTrader Rating: (4/100% )	mike colon ditched his 500whp 5sfte for a ~550 (? around there)whp gen3 3sgte. when asked what it takes to build a 500whp 5sfe, he said the same thing it takes to build any other 500whp 2L 4cyl. he was also on the stock valves when you're making power like that you replace everything, including fuel systems and management. another 5sfte guy, "manny" is making almost 300 ft/lbs on a bone stock engine, with stock cams! its not a question of weather the engine will make that kind of power, because it can, has, and will continue to. all of the fastest mr2's in the united states have used 5s parts, either the block or crank or both. for 300hp, going 3sgte saves you from having to swap cams.. but even on the 3sgte 300whp means a new fuel system and many opt for new management too, and still many opt for forged rebuilds. the point is making power is expensive regardless of what you start with, some engines are just marginally easier.