5SFE: 5SFE Advanced Ignition Timing Problems

[Sh0ty]

I'll do the tune up, then dial back to 14 if necessary.

[1993MR2NA]

"...and I jumped the right connection in the diagnostic box (E1 to TE1)."

I assume this part is done to keep the computer/knock sensor from adjusting the timing.
Does that mean that in order to keep the timing advanced, you must keep it jumpered the whole time? I would assume so, since pulling the jumper should put it back into computer controlled timing. Right?

[ebouwman]

Originally Posted by 1993MR2NA

"...and I jumped the right connection in the diagnostic box (E1 to TE1)."

I assume this part is done to keep the computer/knock sensor from adjusting the timing.
Does that mean that in order to keep the timing advanced, you must keep it jumpered the whole time? I would assume so, since pulling the jumper should put it back into computer controlled timing. Right?

No, not really how it works i don't think. From what i understand the actual timing is way more than 10 degrees BTDC. When you jumper it you're setting the base ignition, and then the computer adds more advance where it needs it.

[1993MR2NA]

Thanks ebouwman, I asked another expert and he said the same thing your did. The jumper just allows you to accurately set the base timing. The computer then makes slight adjustments based off that.

[JJay]

I just got a 91 MR2 I am pretty sure the timing has been advanced 14 degrees. Problem I have is I have to blip the throttle after coming to a stop or the engine stays at 1400 -2000 rpms. If I blip the throttle while in neutral it will go down to 1000 or 900 rpms. It is quite annoying so I tried to search threads that would explain the problem. Can anyone hear tell me what might be wrong? I just got this car so I have to iron out all remaining issues. Previous owner was not the brightest person.

[Gairloch]

Originally Posted by JJay

I just got a 91 MR2 I am pretty sure the timing has been advanced 14 degrees. Problem I have is I have to blip the throttle after coming to a stop or the engine stays at 1400 -2000 rpms. If I blip the throttle while in neutral it will go down to 1000 or 900 rpms. It is quite annoying so I tried to search threads that would explain the problem. Can anyone hear tell me what might be wrong? I just got this car so I have to iron out all remaining issues. Previous owner was not the brightest person.

Your issue doesn't have anything to do with timing advance. If you're needing to blip the throttle to get it to come down to normal most likely the throttle stop on your throttle body is maladjusted and is allowing the copper butterfly valve to dig in to the aluminum neck. The throttle stop is a little screw that you can adjust as needed.

[JJay]

Originally Posted by Gairloch

Your issue doesn't have anything to do with timing advance. If you're needing to blip the throttle to get it to come down to normal most likely the throttle stop on your throttle body is maladjusted and is allowing the copper butterfly valve to dig in to the aluminum neck. The throttle stop is a little screw that you can adjust as needed.

Okay now I am making progress. Thank you Gairloch. I will see to it I have that adjusted. Anyway you can send me a diagram where that is and maybe I can do it myself?

[GENESIS]

Originally Posted by Sh0ty

Yeah, I want to be able to run 87, 89 at the most. So far I haven't heard any knock, so it seems to be working out. Does anyone have any hard numbers for power gains for timing advance?

Nothing it just moves your torque curve lower meaning it will rob the high end,I had my 5sfe advance to 15 JUST for the dyno day.I forgot I had 87 octane, it was fine at the start of the run but somewhere after 3000rpm it started pinging on wot,Second run I had to use 91 and it did the job but NO hp gains just somewhat move my torque curve down,Which I already knew but I had a deal on the dyno run.

You may not hear pinging to be safe use 91 octane specially on hot days.Sometimes you won't notice knock but its happening.It also beats up on the rods and bearings specially doing and aggressive 15 deg.You want longevity keep it at 10 to 12 or or better yet just factory spec 10.If you want some kind of power gain,when its time for you to pull out the motor for a rebuild do an overbore.shave head,clean and port match intake manifold and head,last but not least cams.

[JJay]

Yeah Genesis I have driven a 91 MR2 without the advance in timing and with the advance in timing now with my second one. It seems to pick up faster but burns more gas and I think will hurt your reliability at some point especially if you are a LEAD FOOT driver. I am going back to the stock ignition timing soon. Never thought I would be saying that.

[johnny_kiu]

Originally Posted by GENESIS

You want longevity keep it at 10 to 12 or or better yet just factory spec 10.

I want to set my timing to the factory spec at 10 and I just bought a advance timing gun.

Do I set the dial to 10 and look for the mark to match 0 on the crank pully

or

Set the dial on the gun to 0 and look for the mark to match 10 on the crank pully???

Thank you,

[Sh0ty]

Either way works.

[GENESIS]

Originally Posted by johnny_kiu

I want to set my timing to the factory spec at 10 and I just bought a advance timing gun.

Do I set the dial to 10 and look for the mark to match 0 on the crank pully

or

Set the dial on the gun to 0 and look for the mark to match 10 on the crank pully???

Thank you,

Wait until motor is warmed up,do it at the shade so its easier to see and don't forget to take the right panel of.Now with the engine started on idle Jumper I believe te to e1 and the dash should be lighting up.Set to 0 or the normal mode and look for the # 10 next to the crank pulley,if you cant get it to 10 then 11 is OK

[GENESIS]

Originally Posted by JJay

Yeah Genesis I have driven a 91 MR2 without the advance in timing and with the advance in timing now with my second one. It seems to pick up faster but burns more gas and I think will hurt your reliability at some point especially if you are a LEAD FOOT driver. I am going back to the stock ignition timing soon. Never thought I would be saying that.

Yeah no doubt 5sfe is design for low-end response,so bringing the torque curve down would even help make it crisp.Allot of miata guys jacked their timing up trying to get low-end response on 1.6/1.8 engine bad idea... not enough displacement to take advantage of the timing advance.

I totally agree that it will definitely hurt the reliability,I wouldn't be so against it on a 5sfe if the engine didn't have weak rods,rod bolts and bearings.But even then it will still put more LOAD on the rods and bearing.

I think everyone can agree with me that the 5sfe could should have been a 2.5L from the factory or the mr2 n/a could have had the 3vzfe from the factory.I should make a 5sfe vs ka 24 thread.

[ebouwman]

Originally Posted by GENESIS

I think everyone can agree with me that the 5sfe could should have been a 2.5L from the factory or the mr2 n/a could have had the 3vzfe from the factory.I should make a 5sfe vs ka 24 thread.

I'm sure it didn't come with a bigger engine because toyota wanted to keep the price point lower for the entry level MR2, also maintaining a significant enough power gap between the N/A and the Turbo.

[GENESIS]

The 3sgte should have been a 2.3Liter Turbo from the start and the 5sfe should have been a 2.5L from the factory with enough walls to be bored out more .Its sucks how everyone is trying to get extra power out of the 5sfe....

I wouldn't mind 2.2L if some aftermarket company made a Roots Type blower for it or an optional aluminum block for weight reduction; shoot anything.I can agree with an entry level mr2 but the mk2 should have had more optional engines for the US it would have done even better in the automotive world.

[johnny_kiu]

Originally Posted by GENESIS

Wait until motor is warmed up,do it at the shade so its easier to see and don't forget to take the right panel of.Now with the engine started on idle Jumper I believe te to e1 and the dash should be lighting up.Set to 0 or the normal mode and look for the # 10 next to the crank pulley,if you cant get it to 10 then 11 is OK

So Is one way better than the other? or both the same

[johnny_kiu]

Originally Posted by GENESIS

Wait until motor is warmed up,do it at the shade so its easier to see and don't forget to take the right panel of.Now with the engine started on idle Jumper I believe te to e1 and the dash should be lighting up.Set to 0 or the normal mode and look for the # 10 next to the crank pulley,if you cant get it to 10 then 11 is OK

So Is one way better than the other? or both the same

[GENESIS]

Originally Posted by johnny_kiu

So Is one way better than the other? or both the same

same

[johnny_kiu]

What is the relation between octane level and advance timing? It seems like the more you advance your timing the higher octane is required. Why is this?

[TomsMR2]

Originally Posted by GENESIS

The 3sgte should have been a 2.3Liter Turbo from the start and the 5sfe should have been a 2.5L from the factory with enough walls to be bored out more .Its sucks how everyone is trying to get extra power out of the 5sfe....

I wouldn't mind 2.2L if some aftermarket company made a Roots Type blower for it or an optional aluminum block for weight reduction; shoot anything.I can agree with an entry level mr2 but the mk2 should have had more optional engines for the US it would have done even better in the automotive world.

japanese 2.0L rule.. same reason theres a 3sfe.

the 5sfe is kind of just the north american generic motor they tossed in a few cars.