hard to Start when Cold

PseudoKirby · 10-11-2009, 03:27 PM

The car runs and starts fine warm

but when cold it is difficult to start, and even when you push in the gas it makes the car die

I know the cars got a shotty starter, but thats not the problem mainly, cause it can kick over but the car will try to start up and start idling, but die back down..

I plan on flushing fluids and putting fresh everything this thursday when I have the money, SPECIALLY the oil. with some engine restore and all that
but what could be the problem here? I think its a dirty engine because the guy before me ran it without a filter at all, but I have a K&N Cone Filter on it

he gave me the stock air box to it with no filter, but I think its the turbo one, cause it has an AFM and all that (albeit broken I think as the connection is messed up)

I am really hoping to save this car and make it really nice in the end..

Ben · 10-11-2009, 08:48 PM

It could be the throttle body sticking. I would clean out the throttle body as a start.

PseudoKirby · 10-11-2009, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben

It could be the throttle body sticking. I would clean out the throttle body as a start.

yea I already cleaned it out a bit cause the gas pedal was sticking

should I take it apart and thoroughly clean it and part of the intake manifold?

would I need a gasket for it?

also a wire on the throttle position censor is cut, although I will be fixing that tomorrow though, but I dont think that would affect this would it?

but am I right about the Engine oil? I think this car was sitting for awhile so the oil is prolly old..

Ben · 10-12-2009, 12:21 AM

If the throttle body is clean but it still starts and dies, then the next culprit could be the idle speed control valve (on the bottle of the throttle body). But I would fix the broken wire first - that would effect idle.

PseudoKirby · 10-12-2009, 12:33 AM

So this can only affect idle when cold? because when its warm it runs and idles perfectly fine

Ben · 10-12-2009, 02:36 AM

At colder temperatures, carbon build up sticks more so if it is the ISC valve, the carbon sticks and holds a valve inside closed when it should be open.

PseudoKirby · 10-12-2009, 04:54 AM

According to this shop manual the ISC valve is under the air intake on the Throttle bottle, it can be taken off without the throttle body being taken off right?

I dont want to have to buy a gasket... cheap I know..

b.18tuner5875 · 10-12-2009, 08:25 AM

It's very hard to get at it without taking off the throttle body. Also get ready to drill out the seized screws that hold it in.

PseudoKirby · 10-12-2009, 04:54 PM

ok so what about these vacuum hoses on it?

my dad is yelling at me to not touch them...

Ben · 10-12-2009, 10:01 PM

There is 1 vacuum line and 2 coolant lines - you have to take them off to get the ISC valve off. To removed the screws that hold it in, I would use an impact screwdriver.

PseudoKirby · 11-05-2009, 02:31 PM

I seafoamed the intake, but I havnt taken off the ISC valve to clean it... I did kinda use a Q-Tip and got a good amount of black crap out of it... but I dont know if that is good enough

could this be the cold start injector?

Oh, I also noticed that when cold it idles at 800 - 900... which I think is normal... but when warm it idles at 1200 - 1300

and I fixed the cut wire to the TPS and changed the oil... it seems a little easier to start now but still the problem exists

PseudoKirby · 11-06-2009, 10:40 AM

Can anyone at least show me the location of the cold start injector?

I have looked through this shop manual.. but it only gives a diagram of the layout.. without showing the exact location

and I have google searched it still nothing

maybe if someone could even describe where it is?

CJMR2T · 11-06-2009, 11:28 AM

I would check the coolent temp sensor first and formost...

Cold start is only that, for cold starting. It is only active while cranking the engine. Once its fired, the cold start injector / system has nothing to do with engine running and your said in the first post that it'll start and try to idle, then die.

At cold temps, the engine is very tempermental to correct fueling and timing. The ECU is very dependent on accurate reading from the coolent temp sensor to run the engine when its cold. Fuel, timing, and idle speed are all controlled by the ECU based on coolent temp.

Also cold start system doesn't even kick in during cranking until roughly 65*f and below so if your coolent temp is above that, then cold start is not functioning anyways and thus wouldn't cause the issue.

PseudoKirby · 11-07-2009, 01:17 PM

I wish I could have someone who knows to attempt starting it, because there is more than that.. I guess I should have clarifed

yes it will kick up and try to idle then die, but it does a couple other things

like keep trying to crank over and over again with no start

the colder it is the harder it is to start it, it will also sometime just sit there and hum without trying to crank for like 10 - 30 seconds.. but I think that may be because the battery is low from trying to start it so much

it will also make a very loud grinding type sound, but I know thats the starter, and that doesnt just happen when its cold

but I guess I should look into the coolant temp sensor then... Ill read through the manual to find its location

PseudoKirby · 11-10-2009, 01:13 PM

ok I am assuming this is the Coolant Temp Sensor..... and I can see whats wrong with it...

initially it wasnt all the way off... but all of a sudden the car STOPPED trying to start all together... and the hum of the radiator and such stopped... the battery and check engine light dont come on when trying to start it anymore... only the airbag light (because of it being dissconnected) and the thing that looks like a genies lamp.. which I think is supposed to be oil...

10-11-2009, 03:27 PM	#1 (permalink)
PseudoKirby Torn Asunder Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Concord, CA Posts: 188 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	hard to Start when Cold The car runs and starts fine warm but when cold it is difficult to start, and even when you push in the gas it makes the car die I know the cars got a shotty starter, but thats not the problem mainly, cause it can kick over but the car will try to start up and start idling, but die back down.. I plan on flushing fluids and putting fresh everything this thursday when I have the money, SPECIALLY the oil. with some engine restore and all that but what could be the problem here? I think its a dirty engine because the guy before me ran it without a filter at all, but I have a K&N Cone Filter on it he gave me the stock air box to it with no filter, but I think its the turbo one, cause it has an AFM and all that (albeit broken I think as the connection is messed up) I am really hoping to save this car and make it really nice in the end..

11-05-2009, 02:31 PM	#11 (permalink)
PseudoKirby Torn Asunder Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Concord, CA Posts: 188 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	I seafoamed the intake, but I havnt taken off the ISC valve to clean it... I did kinda use a Q-Tip and got a good amount of black crap out of it... but I dont know if that is good enough could this be the cold start injector? Oh, I also noticed that when cold it idles at 800 - 900... which I think is normal... but when warm it idles at 1200 - 1300 and I fixed the cut wire to the TPS and changed the oil... it seems a little easier to start now but still the problem exists Last edited by PseudoKirby; 11-05-2009 at 02:44 PM..

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10-11-2009, 08:48 PM	#2 (permalink)
Ben Same In The End Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Oceanside, CA / Reno, NV Posts: 4,274 Thanks: 20 Thanked 309 Times in 284 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (16/100% )	It could be the throttle body sticking. I would clean out the throttle body as a start.

10-12-2009, 12:21 AM	#4 (permalink)
Ben Same In The End Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Oceanside, CA / Reno, NV Posts: 4,274 Thanks: 20 Thanked 309 Times in 284 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (16/100% )	If the throttle body is clean but it still starts and dies, then the next culprit could be the idle speed control valve (on the bottle of the throttle body). But I would fix the broken wire first - that would effect idle.

10-12-2009, 12:33 AM	#5 (permalink)
PseudoKirby Torn Asunder Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Concord, CA Posts: 188 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	So this can only affect idle when cold? because when its warm it runs and idles perfectly fine

10-12-2009, 02:36 AM	#6 (permalink)
Ben Same In The End Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Oceanside, CA / Reno, NV Posts: 4,274 Thanks: 20 Thanked 309 Times in 284 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (16/100% )	At colder temperatures, carbon build up sticks more so if it is the ISC valve, the carbon sticks and holds a valve inside closed when it should be open.

10-12-2009, 04:54 AM	#7 (permalink)
PseudoKirby Torn Asunder Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Concord, CA Posts: 188 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	According to this shop manual the ISC valve is under the air intake on the Throttle bottle, it can be taken off without the throttle body being taken off right? I dont want to have to buy a gasket... cheap I know..

10-12-2009, 08:25 AM	#8 (permalink)
b.18tuner5875 No Gracias Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan Posts: 425 Thanks: 36 Thanked 15 Times in 14 Posts iTrader Rating: (4/100% )	It's very hard to get at it without taking off the throttle body. Also get ready to drill out the seized screws that hold it in.

10-12-2009, 04:54 PM	#9 (permalink)
PseudoKirby Torn Asunder Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Concord, CA Posts: 188 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	ok so what about these vacuum hoses on it? my dad is yelling at me to not touch them...

10-12-2009, 10:01 PM	#10 (permalink)
Ben Same In The End Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Oceanside, CA / Reno, NV Posts: 4,274 Thanks: 20 Thanked 309 Times in 284 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (16/100% )	There is 1 vacuum line and 2 coolant lines - you have to take them off to get the ISC valve off. To removed the screws that hold it in, I would use an impact screwdriver.

11-06-2009, 10:40 AM	#12 (permalink)
PseudoKirby Torn Asunder Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Concord, CA Posts: 188 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	Can anyone at least show me the location of the cold start injector? I have looked through this shop manual.. but it only gives a diagram of the layout.. without showing the exact location and I have google searched it still nothing maybe if someone could even describe where it is?

11-06-2009, 11:28 AM	#13 (permalink)
CJMR2T Fabricator Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Lakeland, FL Posts: 3,676 Thanks: 3 Thanked 353 Times in 335 Posts iTrader Rating: (4/100% )	I would check the coolent temp sensor first and formost... Cold start is only that, for cold starting. It is only active while cranking the engine. Once its fired, the cold start injector / system has nothing to do with engine running and your said in the first post that it'll start and try to idle, then die. At cold temps, the engine is very tempermental to correct fueling and timing. The ECU is very dependent on accurate reading from the coolent temp sensor to run the engine when its cold. Fuel, timing, and idle speed are all controlled by the ECU based on coolent temp. Also cold start system doesn't even kick in during cranking until roughly 65*f and below so if your coolent temp is above that, then cold start is not functioning anyways and thus wouldn't cause the issue.

11-07-2009, 01:17 PM	#14 (permalink)
PseudoKirby Torn Asunder Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Concord, CA Posts: 188 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	I wish I could have someone who knows to attempt starting it, because there is more than that.. I guess I should have clarifed yes it will kick up and try to idle then die, but it does a couple other things like keep trying to crank over and over again with no start the colder it is the harder it is to start it, it will also sometime just sit there and hum without trying to crank for like 10 - 30 seconds.. but I think that may be because the battery is low from trying to start it so much it will also make a very loud grinding type sound, but I know thats the starter, and that doesnt just happen when its cold but I guess I should look into the coolant temp sensor then... Ill read through the manual to find its location

11-10-2009, 01:13 PM	#15 (permalink)
PseudoKirby Torn Asunder Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Concord, CA Posts: 188 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	ok I am assuming this is the Coolant Temp Sensor..... and I can see whats wrong with it... initially it wasnt all the way off... but all of a sudden the car STOPPED trying to start all together... and the hum of the radiator and such stopped... the battery and check engine light dont come on when trying to start it anymore... only the airbag light (because of it being dissconnected) and the thing that looks like a genies lamp.. which I think is supposed to be oil...