Why not the 5SFE?

[Mister2.2]

Originally Posted by Tyler H

If you take the dollar/hp equation out of the picture, you could put a Briggs and Stratton pullstart mower engine in there and make a bazillion hp.

You can make a 5sfe make some power with enough money, but what's the point? At best, you have something of morbid curiosity...like barstool racing.

You could take the same money and make more power with a 3sgte or a V6 swap....or another car.

It's been debated a gazillion times, but it always comes down to this: The 5sfe is an economy engine, and it doesn't matter if you put the pig in a nightgown, you can't make it dance. They don't respond well to bolt-ons, and it takes a disproportionate amount of money to boost them versus buying a viable 3s, or even swapping a V6.

It does not...make...sense...

It is good at what it does...make a modicum of torque at low rpms and require very little maintenance.

You can take any 5sfe car, take the money it takes to build the motor to make any power....put it into tires and suspension instead, and have a higher performance car.

You can take any 5sfe car, take the money it takes to build the motor to make any power....put it into a 3sgte swap instead, and have a higher performance car.

You can take any 5sfe car, take the money it takes to build the motor to make any power....put it into a V6 swap instead, and have a higher performance car.

You can take any 5sfe car, take the money it takes to build the motor to make any power....put it into a trust fund instead, and buy a higher performance car.

It is a good...economy...engine... Don't torture it by trying to make it something it isn't.

It's really disappointing to see such negative 5SFE posts like this one and makes me believe you have not looked into modification of the 5SFE at all. Saying that it does not respond well to bolt-ons is absurd! It responds GREAT to bolt-ons!

There is always a cheaper engine out there that out performs another, so why are you using the one you are? Why not stick something else in there that's cheaper if that is all you are concerned about. I suppose if all you want to do is run with the crowd all your life then go ahead and do it.

And I don't want to see the 5SFE section turn into a bashing section either. Let's think of some innovative solutions for the engine instead of the no thought negative responses like replacing it with another engine.

And don't give me any BS about replacing it with a lawn mower engine or something else ridiculous, you better use some common sense and be REALISTIC in an argument if you want any credibility.

I already mentioned the hp for dollar equation is not what is important here so keep that in mind. I'm not trying to fool anyone into thinking they can put out high numbers for cheap.

If the people who first got started with the 3SGTE had the same mentality that you have about the 5SFE it would never be producing the numbers it does today.

[MR2Board]

Please don't make the 5S section a place to bash the NA. Keep it constructive.

[TomsMR2]

tyler h.. with that attitude it makes me wonder why you own an mr2 at all. for the money you could have another car doing whatever you're into better.. and probably cheaper.

[Tyler H]

Originally Posted by TechSupport

Please don't make the 5S section a place to bash the NA. Keep it constructive.

Sorry...didn't realize pay attention to this being the 5S section. I only use the digest view...and it is lame to bash the engine in its own forum. My bad.

You can do whatever makes you happy with your money. I started with a 5S and it was an exercise in futility for me. To each their own.

For my buck, something else made me happier. My last public service announcement....if you're considering a major build on a 5S, you owe it to yourself to take that 2 to 4k and buy a Mk1. Drive it for a month, and then decide. You can always sell it and then build your dream 5S.

I guess my point is that there is a whole world of cool cars and engines out there, and a lot of the people I see pour money into the 5S are younger and haven't experienced very many of them. Sample a few before you decide to marry one of them with your wallet.

Toyota isn't stupid. The 5S is a wonderfully simple, efficient and reliable power plant. It's tourqey, tough as nails and dependable as a ballpeen hammer.

[Tyler H]

Originally Posted by TomsMR2

tyler h.. with that attitude it makes me wonder why you own an mr2 at all. for the money you could have another car doing whatever you're into better.. and probably cheaper.

Sorry that my attitude came across so negative...it was meant to be tongue-in-cheek (didn't realize I was in the 5S shrine of the forum,) but you're right. I could definitely have a more capable car for what I've spent. We all make our choices and live with them.

[SpeedballTrix]

Oh man Im glad I stopped caring about this thread.

[Tyler H]

Originally Posted by SpeedballTrix

Oh man Im glad I stopped caring about this thread.

Ok...I surrender for my beating...it was well-earned. Someone post up some 5S dyno plots and make me eat my words.

[SpeedballTrix]

I dont see the relation between that quote and your post =P

[TomsMR2]

torque!

[Weasy2k]

When will people understand that the 3s-gte just doesnt BOLT in?
Yes and no

3s-gtes go for what 1100 for a good one? That runs right....
Turbo Tranny...once again 300-600+ for one that is right
Axles 400-500
Shifter Cables...
Fuel pump (that goes for turbo 5s too tho)
exhaust and shizzle that goes with it
Turbo hubs...

All that to get the 3s in there....
THATS PARTS

some people dont want to spend that much money to get that power....some people want some basic umph that will make it gain a bit of power.

Take a look at the 3vz-e 3.Slow from the 4runner...this 5s/3vz-e vs 3s/5vz debate has been beaten to death millions of times...sometimes its just not worth it for the person.

If you wanted crazy power then YES swap it..but again if you want just a little more balls then stick with the stock engine and add some bolt ons.

I know i repeated myself several times, but it appears that these points just dont set into peoples head.

[Mister2.2]

Originally Posted by Tyler H

Sorry that my attitude came across so negative...it was meant to be tongue-in-cheek (didn't realize I was in the 5S shrine of the forum,) but you're right. I could definitely have a more capable car for what I've spent. We all make our choices and live with them.

It's cool Tyler, I know you aren't an *******, or trying to be one... I just don't know what it takes for an NA 4cyl to be impressive anymore. :shrug:

[Weasy2k]

apaerently dynos dynos and dynos!

[Tyler H]

Originally Posted by TomsMR2

torque!

Looks like a Cummins Diesel. But I'm sure the gearing is all to hell.

[Tyler H]

Originally Posted by Mister2.2

It's cool Tyler, I know you aren't an *******, or trying to be one... I just don't know what it takes for an NA 4cyl to be impressive anymore. :shrug:

I'll tell you what does it...the E-stock results from Solo II nationals.

[SpeedballTrix]

"I just don't know what it takes for an NA 4cyl to be impressive anymore"

Revs.

[Tyler H]

Originally Posted by SpeedballTrix

"I just don't know what it takes for an NA 4cyl to be impressive anymore"

Revs.

It doesn't have to rev to infinity, but 6500rpm is a good number. You lose a lot of time when you have to shift all the time to stay in your torque band. Whether it falls off at 4250rpm or whether its only between 5500 and 7500.

My old 5S would burn out a lot better than my 3S ever will.
(I'm going to make sure I say at least one positive thing I liked about my 5S in every post in this thread.)

[Weasy2k]

FOr the people saying its weak, what goes first? Rods?

[Mister2.2]

Pistons I believe.

[Tyler H]

Originally Posted by Weasy2k

FOr the people saying its weak, what goes first? Rods?

The weakest part of the motor is the roof angle of the head, IMO.

People boosting them melt pistons....usually due to poor tuning and higher-than-optimal compression, compounded with inadequate fuel management.

Another thing you see with the 5S is broken ringlands from detonation for the same reasons.

An NA 5s would be sweet, if you could get it to carry some torque/hp through to redline. The power and torque is adequate out of the box, but it is the dropoff after ~4300rpm that really...sucks.

BUT!! My 5S was much more efficiently packaged than my 3s, didn't use expensive synthetic oil, and underhood temps were much lower.

[TomsMR2]

"optimal" boosted compression is 13:1+! or whatever obsurdly high compression you can get without banging a piston into the valves. optimal for power? sure.. optimal for lasting more than a few runs, not really.. the more compression you can have without exploding, the better.

the 5s pistons seem to go first.. its mostly because people dont want to run race gas, and/or arent tuned properly. no ones tried to boost the piss out of one on stock pistons with great tuning. so who knows what would happen. its not like the people who've blown them did so from just purely running too much power.. that cummins diesel looking dyno i posted was on stock pistons actually it was on stock everything..

An NA 5s would be sweet, if you could get it to carry some torque/hp through to redline. The power and torque is adequate out of the box, but it is the dropoff after ~4300rpm that really...sucks.

its basically a 300 dollar cam set away from effectively using its redline.. toss in some OS valves (i paid 15 bucks for mine, machining will be another ~200) and you'll easily bang off redline. mine quits about 4800 with with what ive done.. with a better cam setup i'll pretty much always be in my powerband, and carry it out close enough to redline.