Turbo 5SFE weak points?

CasperIV · 05-20-2006, 06:38 PM

I have a chance to get a turbo kit for a 5sfe for dirt cheap, and figured I would build an engine for fun. What is the weakest point on the 5sfe? I figure the head will get a port and polish, and new cams, but how well do the pistons and rods hold up? I know the block will take it fine, and I only figure that it will ever see 7 psi, but I don't want any surprises.

AndrewMcG · 05-21-2006, 11:05 AM

If you are only going for 7psi, the stock bottom end should be fine if you have a good tune. However, the pistons are the first weak point in that motor so it might be a good idea to put some forged pistons in if you're going to build it anyway.

The weak point in power is definitely the flow of the head. Oversized valves, port and polish and good cams would do a heck of a lot for that motor.

TomsMR2 · 05-21-2006, 07:46 PM

the ecu is the first weak point, especially on a 91/92.

Jay-Spec · 05-22-2006, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomsMR2

the ecu is the first weak point, especially on a 91/92.

please explain, i have a 91 auto.

Mach2 · 05-22-2006, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomsMR2

the ecu is the first weak point, especially on a 91/92.

I had heard from Burien Toyota the guys that make a turbo kit for the 5sfe that the ECU was cool up to like 10-12 psi, Im not trying to be argumentative though Where did you get your info? Im trying to build a turbo 5S and I had heard the same that the pistons where the main weak point so I bought some way too expensive oversize forged Arias Pistons..

TomsMR2 · 05-22-2006, 10:10 AM

91/92's dont have real TPS sensors, and they fire all 4 injectors at the same time. it has no knock sensor either, a pretty huge deal for a knock-prone turbo 5s. its just a crappy setup.

does it work? sure.. hell mitsubishi has turbo motors with one injector!

i think its a dirty injection method, and shouldnt be used. people have done it, but i wouldnt. its a weak point for na operation, and its a weak point boosted!

CasperIV · 05-22-2006, 11:08 AM

Yeah, but, the car I'm going to use is a 93, and I think the fuel system is going to be a bigger problem. The stock system isn't really working well for just well built 5sfe's let alone for blown ones. From what I heard, the injectors may not even be up to the task if you start to go around 200hp. Also, the fuel pump is good up to stock 3sgte power and consumption, but people are posting test results with them being pretty much maxed out there.

Mach2 · 05-22-2006, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomsMR2

91/92's dont have real TPS sensors, and they fire all 4 injectors at the same time. it has no knock sensor either, a pretty huge deal for a knock-prone turbo 5s. its just a crappy setup.

does it work? sure.. hell mitsubishi has turbo motors with one injector!

i think its a dirty injection method, and shouldnt be used. people have done it, but i wouldnt. its a weak point for na operation, and its a weak point boosted!

Man I really hadnt thought about little things like that please excuse me, not to Hijack the thread but If I want to Turbo a stock 5sf, What is a good shopping list without getting expensive *read- im cheap* I already as I said have the forged pistons which Im going to hold off on rebuilding my engine with those, but i have a 3SGTE exhaust manifold and a Turbo muffler, what would be my safest cheapest listof items to get? yes I know money wise a swap would probably make more since but I wont run across 3500 anytime soon and I dont trust myself on a swap of that caliber.

Mach2 · 05-22-2006, 04:15 PM

TTT -> any one have any suggestions?

Weasy2k · 05-24-2006, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomsMR2

91/92's dont have real TPS sensors, and they fire all 4 injectors at the same time. it has no knock sensor either, a pretty huge deal for a knock-prone turbo 5s. its just a crappy setup.

does it work? sure.. hell mitsubishi has turbo motors with one injector!

i think its a dirty injection method, and shouldnt be used. people have done it, but i wouldnt. its a weak point for na operation, and its a weak point boosted!

Doesnt matter how your injection is...if it gets the fuel in the cyls then it works...batch injection has been done on turbo engines for years and still is on some.

Knock prone? what makes it this way? COmpression?

Its all about tuning...i can make any engine knock prone by stupid advance and no fuel...

TomsMR2 · 05-24-2006, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Knock prone? what makes it this way? COmpression?

turboing an na engine is inherantly knock prone. if you dont tune it, it WILL explode quickly. with a 91/92 you can tune it so it shouldnt knock.. with a 93+ you can constantly monitor and control knock.. along with tuning, its an extra safety margin.

any time you're shooting fuel against a closed valve, you're losing atomization. unatomized fuel can pass right through the cylinder without even burning. they're both batch fire, but 93+ is 2+2 as opposed to all at once. its better injection.

CasperIV · 05-24-2006, 02:51 PM

Well, the car I started the post about is a 93, and I was already planning many hours of dyno tuning. I just don't want to get it tuned and find out the pistons only last for about 5k miles on boost then crack or warp.

Whats the hardest people have boosted a 5sfe, both built and stock?

Brokenline · 05-25-2006, 03:33 AM

heres a great read by MrTurrari

i hope he doesnt mind me posting it.
http://warp.scl.utah.edu/mr2/Turbo5sfe.html

Sirc · 05-25-2006, 03:59 AM

Pistons, rods, head (no cooling because there are no oil squirters), oldness, no flow. I dunno, what else?

Weasy2k · 05-25-2006, 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomsMR2

turboing an na engine is inherantly knock prone. if you dont tune it, it WILL explode quickly. with a 91/92 you can tune it so it shouldnt knock.. with a 93+ you can constantly monitor and control knock.. along with tuning, its an extra safety margin.

any time you're shooting fuel against a closed valve, you're losing atomization. unatomized fuel can pass right through the cylinder without even burning. they're both batch fire, but 93+ is 2+2 as opposed to all at once. its better injection.

Thats my point again..tuning

everyone says the engines have a weakness.that is right but to get you there would mean to tune the engine incorrectly...

TomsMR2 · 05-25-2006, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Thats my point again..tuning

its my point too

one engine can be tuned more accurately than the other!

CasperIV · 05-25-2006, 11:56 AM

Good lord people, I wanted the weak point on the 5sfe with a turbo, not weak points if you are going for 300hp+. Yes, most of the engine is not up to par for a ton of power...... but generally when you are going to double the power of any engine you have to change a good deal of parts. You don't see many stock 3sgte's pumping 400 horse without some work. Further, the goal of a turbo 5sfe is rarely going to be to pump out huge numbers, but more to see what is possible. This is where the curiosity and the mechanical challenge come in.

The truth is if I wanted this build to see 200-400 hp, there is no way I would do a 3sgte swap no matter what. I would just take the time to do my research and do a V6 swap. In fact, that is planned for this winter, after I finish planning out my budget and where I will have room to do it.

I apologize to those people who did stay on topic, and did offer good information. To those who just wanted to start a good old engine bash, go back to the turbo forum and make a new thread all about how you hate the 5sfe.

Weasy2k · 05-25-2006, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomsMR2

its my point too

one engine can be tuned more accurately than the other!

equal terms :P

Weasy2k · 05-25-2006, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sircnay

(no cooling because there are no oil squirters), oldness, no flow.

Nice man...
cause you know the 3vz 5vz both dont have oil squirters yet have HUGE power potential :P

So with that being said...
your old with no flow

Sirc · 05-25-2006, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weasy2k

Nice man...
cause you know the 3vz 5vz both dont have oil squirters yet have HUGE power potential :P

So with that being said...
your old with no flow

Yes but the 5SFE is... um... uh... GO TO HELL!

05-20-2006, 06:38 PM	#1 (permalink)
CasperIV "Rubber Side Down" Join Date: May 2006 Location: Corvallis, OR Posts: 28 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Turbo 5SFE weak points? I have a chance to get a turbo kit for a 5sfe for dirt cheap, and figured I would build an engine for fun. What is the weakest point on the 5sfe? I figure the head will get a port and polish, and new cams, but how well do the pistons and rods hold up? I know the block will take it fine, and I only figure that it will ever see 7 psi, but I don't want any surprises.

05-22-2006, 04:15 PM	#9 (permalink)
Mach2 Flame Retardant Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 746 Thanks: 59 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	TTT TTT -> any one have any suggestions?

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05-21-2006, 11:05 AM	#2 (permalink)
AndrewMcG Its not lag, Its foreplay Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 756 Thanks: 6 Thanked 19 Times in 17 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (3/100% )	If you are only going for 7psi, the stock bottom end should be fine if you have a good tune. However, the pistons are the first weak point in that motor so it might be a good idea to put some forged pistons in if you're going to build it anyway. The weak point in power is definitely the flow of the head. Oversized valves, port and polish and good cams would do a heck of a lot for that motor.

05-21-2006, 07:46 PM	#3 (permalink)
TomsMR2 Still not heraldo. Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Pineapple under the sea Posts: 4,911 Thanks: 18 Thanked 406 Times in 303 Posts Blog Entries: 1 iTrader Rating: (4/100% )	the ecu is the first weak point, especially on a 91/92.

05-22-2006, 10:10 AM	#6 (permalink)
TomsMR2 Still not heraldo. Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Pineapple under the sea Posts: 4,911 Thanks: 18 Thanked 406 Times in 303 Posts Blog Entries: 1 iTrader Rating: (4/100% )	91/92's dont have real TPS sensors, and they fire all 4 injectors at the same time. it has no knock sensor either, a pretty huge deal for a knock-prone turbo 5s. its just a crappy setup. does it work? sure.. hell mitsubishi has turbo motors with one injector! i think its a dirty injection method, and shouldnt be used. people have done it, but i wouldnt. its a weak point for na operation, and its a weak point boosted!

05-22-2006, 11:08 AM	#7 (permalink)
CasperIV "Rubber Side Down" Join Date: May 2006 Location: Corvallis, OR Posts: 28 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Yeah, but, the car I'm going to use is a 93, and I think the fuel system is going to be a bigger problem. The stock system isn't really working well for just well built 5sfe's let alone for blown ones. From what I heard, the injectors may not even be up to the task if you start to go around 200hp. Also, the fuel pump is good up to stock 3sgte power and consumption, but people are posting test results with them being pretty much maxed out there.

05-24-2006, 02:51 PM	#12 (permalink)
CasperIV "Rubber Side Down" Join Date: May 2006 Location: Corvallis, OR Posts: 28 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Well, the car I started the post about is a 93, and I was already planning many hours of dyno tuning. I just don't want to get it tuned and find out the pistons only last for about 5k miles on boost then crack or warp. Whats the hardest people have boosted a 5sfe, both built and stock?

05-25-2006, 03:33 AM	#13 (permalink)
Brokenline Cage Fighter Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: socal Posts: 284 Thanks: 2 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	heres a great read by MrTurrari i hope he doesnt mind me posting it. http://warp.scl.utah.edu/mr2/Turbo5sfe.html

05-25-2006, 03:59 AM	#14 (permalink)
Sirc Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,965 Thanks: 6 Thanked 8 Times in 5 Posts iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	Pistons, rods, head (no cooling because there are no oil squirters), oldness, no flow. I dunno, what else?

05-25-2006, 11:56 AM	#17 (permalink)
CasperIV "Rubber Side Down" Join Date: May 2006 Location: Corvallis, OR Posts: 28 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Good lord people, I wanted the weak point on the 5sfe with a turbo, not weak points if you are going for 300hp+. Yes, most of the engine is not up to par for a ton of power...... but generally when you are going to double the power of any engine you have to change a good deal of parts. You don't see many stock 3sgte's pumping 400 horse without some work. Further, the goal of a turbo 5sfe is rarely going to be to pump out huge numbers, but more to see what is possible. This is where the curiosity and the mechanical challenge come in. The truth is if I wanted this build to see 200-400 hp, there is no way I would do a 3sgte swap no matter what. I would just take the time to do my research and do a V6 swap. In fact, that is planned for this winter, after I finish planning out my budget and where I will have room to do it. I apologize to those people who did stay on topic, and did offer good information. To those who just wanted to start a good old engine bash, go back to the turbo forum and make a new thread all about how you hate the 5sfe.