5sfe to 3sgte swap

[roofles]

Are my searching skills terribly dysfunctional or is there not exactly an abundance of organized information regarding an NA to turbo swap? I have found threads on mr2oc as well that remind the poster that such a subject has been convered "extensively." It would seem so, how could it not be. But where? Can anyone point me in the right direction? I would appreciate this greatly, and appologies in advance if I have just asked a question to which the answer is terribly obvious. Thanks.

[buzz21]

I had the same problem, looking forward to the responses.

[Mister2.2]

What information are you looking for exactly? Your best bet is to get a whole rear clip. If you can't do that you will basically need everything from the rear. The whole engine, ECU / harness all the accessories, hubs / axles... and would probably be good to use the tranny as well but I don't think that is necessary.

[Camel]

Ingredients to do a swap are:
(1)The big green book.
You want the one that describes how to do the swap. It suggests removing the engine by lifting it out. You will no doubt be using a cherry picker and lowering it out. That's the only noticeable difference.
(2) 3sgte.[clip].
You want a rear clip, because you will have all the parts to make a clean swap. Plan on spending several hundred $ for a wiring harness to replace the one that is cut and useless. JDM engines are better, but it really doesn't matter if you plan to extensively modify the engine. 3rd generation is more difficult, but ultimately any 3sgte will do.
(3)Tools.
You need all of the metric tools you can get. Having pneumatic wrenches are nice for the suspension bolts. You need a torque wrench to install the new engine.
You need a Cherry picker, a furniture dolly(the one I used I bought from home depot), and jack stands that can go high enough. And one jack at least; two would be better.

That's all I am going to write at the moment. I left out a lot of stuff.

[buzz21]

So it's not really worth it then, I will just get the turbo to start with.

[roofles]

Thanks for the info. From what you wrote as well as other things I've seen, it would seem anything short of a clip is not really viable. I have been looking at a few clips here and there as i prepare to do this, it would seem its possible to find some with intact harnesses. As for the bgb, are there multiple versions i need to distinguish between?

[mr2slow4you]

Originally Posted by buzz21

So it's not really worth it then, I will just get the turbo to start with.

Some of the positives to doing the na- turbo swap are:

If you have a sunroof already, it is lighter

The jdm motors will typically have much less miles than usdm turbo cars

That little bit of extra power in stock form from the ceramic ct26 and the ecu

If insurance is an issue, the car will remain under the na classification after the swap

Get to do some general maintenance while the motor is out

Negatives...

Resell will not be incredible

If you get in an accident they compensate you for a na car (not ****)

Have to change out the fuel pump



These are just some things that come to my mind.

[roofles]

Is it necessary to change the fuel pump? Also can anyone recommend a source of clips in southern California? I have referenced Tyler's excellent thread on the gen3 swap, but Ron has thus far not returned any calls. Suggestions?

[mr2slow4you]

Ron at motors unlimited? If that is who you are referring to I had an excellent experience getting my half car through him.

It is a good idea to go ahead and swap out the fuel pump since the na pump really can't handle more than stock boost. Plus, while the motor is out there is alot more room in there to mess with the fuel lines. The fuel pump swap really isn't that bad at all.

[Tyler H]

Originally Posted by roofles

Is it necessary to change the fuel pump? Also can anyone recommend a source of clips in southern California? I have referenced Tyler's excellent thread on the gen3 swap, but Ron has thus far not returned any calls. Suggestions?

Hmm...not like Ron to drop calls? How long ago did you call him?

As was said, the best reason to get a clip is that everything is there....plus it makes an excellent storage container to protect your parts during shipping.

It is possible to find wrecked USDM turbo cars as a starting point, but I have <NEVER> run across a wrecked USDM turbo car that is in excellent mechanical shape. I hate to say it, but I have never stood next to an originial Mk2 turbo in good mechanical shape. The only good ones I've seen have been swaps.

You don't need to worry about a cut body harness if you're willing to put the time in to build yourself a wiring "to do" list. The body harness is only for interfacing the engine to the dashboard, start switch, AC, etc. The engine would be perfectly content to run on the engine harness alone if you stuck it on a stand. I would not buy a motor set with a missing or cut engine harness, or try to swap/replace engine harnesses. Wiring is one of those things that is best left untouched.

I personally would either pay a big premium for one of those uber-rare, one-owner, low-mileage USDM turbos, or pay a little premium ($4-5k) for a top notch clip.

[Tyler H]

Originally Posted by mr2slow4you

The fuel pump swap really isn't that bad at all.

Yeah...not compared to root canals, kidney stones and the plague.

Are you really willing to risk a $4k clip on a $100 part? The NA pump is woefully inadequate for even a Gen2 turbo at stock boost. Just swap it. Buy beer. Life is good.

[mr2slow4you]

^I guess when you have done the fuel pump twice, it really isn't that bad anymore. Besides, I like laying on my car in the most awkward positions imaginable.

[mr2slow4you]

Originally Posted by Tyler H

Hmm...not like Ron to drop calls? How long ago did you call him?

As was said, the best reason to get a clip is that everything is there....plus it makes an excellent storage container to protect your parts during shipping.

It is possible to find wrecked USDM turbo cars as a starting point, but I have <NEVER> run across a wrecked USDM turbo car that is in excellent mechanical shape. I hate to say it, but I have never stood next to an originial Mk2 turbo in good mechanical shape. The only good ones I've seen have been swaps.

You don't need to worry about a cut body harness if you're willing to put the time in to build yourself a wiring "to do" list. The body harness is only for interfacing the engine to the dashboard, start switch, AC, etc. The engine would be perfectly content to run on the engine harness alone if you stuck it on a stand. I would not buy a motor set with a missing or cut engine harness, or try to swap/replace engine harnesses. Wiring is one of those things that is best left untouched.

I personally would either pay a big premium for one of those uber-rare, one-owner, low-mileage USDM turbos, or pay a little premium ($4-5k) for a top notch clip.

I could not have agreed more with you. I purchased my clip from ron (if it is the same ron), and I could not have been happier. Yes, I paid a little premium for a gen2 clip. But, I think 20,000 miles later and not a single problem can attest to the quality of the clip.

[Josh]

Originally Posted by mr2slow4you

I could not have agreed more with you. I purchased my clip from ron (if it is the same ron), and I could not have been happier. Yes, I paid a little premium for a gen2 clip. But, I think 20,000 miles later and not a single problem can attest to the quality of the clip.

How did you pay for the clip?

[mr2slow4you]

I don't like to disclose exactly what I paid, as his prices will vary on the condition and mods the clips have. For example if it has a full wiring harness or not. But, it was in the range of 2800-3600 to my door.

[roofles]

I will give Ron another shot on the rep he has established here. I went to one place in LA to check a clip. Guy shows me around through mounds of tires and sr20 clips, "I have 10 mr2 turbo clips." A few minutes later, he tells me not to bother with the ones back there since he doesnt want to get them out. Ok...why did you show them to me then? I look around some more. I find an ok looking one but cant see it from the top (its stacked on top of 2 other clips, so I saw only from the bottom). He tells me, "I'm not going to take it down for you to look at. I take it down you buy it."

*Sigh*
wtf...some people...1 min 45 sec to forklift the sucker down. What a waste of my time.

[killer2]

is there anyone who has a diagram or step by step on the wiring changes needed. i have a 1991 na body with a 1991 turbo bundle going in. all i should need to do is splice the body harness, but i dont know which ones to do.

help?

[mr2slow4you]

I have a 91na and put in a 93 jdm turbo motor. I am not 100% sure this method will work for you but this is what I did. I pulled my na harness out of the car and then my half turbo harness i had. Laid them side by side, cut open the na harness around the point where the turbo one is cut (might be good to add a few inches), then I counted and wrote down all the wire colors. On mine I was able to just solder and heat shrink the wires that all had the same color codes. There were a few wires that didn't match up, and I just caped those off (cruise control on one side, electric speedo, ect...).

I am at work so sorry for the quick vauge reply.

[Epic1]

how much does the average clip / install end up costing when its all said and done? 3sgte I mean

[PETC]

Depends on the gen of the 3SGTE, if you pay to have it installed, if it's a full clip or a swap, etc, etc.

My guess would be anywhere from 2,500-5,000+