Its Only 1.3 Liters

Jay-Spec · 08-24-2006, 06:37 PM

The rx7s 13b is 1.3 liters and has sequential turbos(not twins). The 13b has a power pulse every 180 degrees. Mmmk a 5S-GE(Hybrid Motor) has 2.2 liters and a power stroke every 180 degrees. So why would it be a bad idea to install 13b turbos on a 5S-GE? I think it would be a nice power add, but if u see something wrong with this set up please let me know.
Thank You

Raptor13x · 08-24-2006, 07:22 PM

The effective displacement of the 13b rotary is 2.6 liters, because a rotor fires once per revolution, while a four-stroke piston engine fires once every other rotation.

The twin turbo setup off the FD RX-7 is a nightmare of complexity. It is considered highly unreliable even by RX-7 fanatics. I would highly encourage anyone to avoid the setup. Sequential turbo setups are overrated.

Enthalpy · 08-24-2006, 09:13 PM

Displacement should be measured in 100% VE flow over RPM. That levels the playing field, and also allows you to size a turbo.

Sequential turbos are not over rated, but they definitely have their place. They are effective at generating a very nice torque curve. However, a car that's trying to be light with an engine that's already fairly heavy for a 4-banger is probably not the place for twins.

Run a larger single. You don't really have the space for twins, even small twins. The plumbing would be way beyond the abilities of most shadetrees in the twin setup.

ZMR2 · 08-24-2006, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raptor13x

The effective displacement of the 13b rotary is 2.6 liters, because a rotor fires once per revolution, while a four-stroke piston engine fires once every other rotation.

The twin turbo setup off the FD RX-7 is a nightmare of complexity. It is considered highly unreliable even by RX-7 fanatics. I would highly encourage anyone to avoid the setup. Sequential turbo setups are overrated.

MY friend has an FD, and man, I love the sound of that car

But I always hear at 100,000 miles expect your engine to be gone.

One time somone was tailgating him and so he shot flames at their car

MR2TuRbZ · 08-24-2006, 11:44 PM

100k miles? ****, thats a GREAT run for that motor, they usually die around the 50-60k mark

ZMR2 · 08-24-2006, 11:54 PM

I thought it was 100k, well ya I think mazda's worrying, I found out a week ago as well that the rx-8 has a big recall for if you rev it to high you can blow it (theres a more explamation to it Im lazy)even at a low milage as well.

Rotary engines are cool, but hella not reliable.

Raptor13x · 08-25-2006, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZMR2

MY friend has an FD, and man, I love the sound of that car

But I always hear at 100,000 miles expect your engine to be gone.

One time somone was tailgating him and so he shot flames at their car

The FD is one of the most beautiful cars ever built. It's a shame they were so flawed.

Raptor13x · 08-25-2006, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZMR2

I thought it was 100k, well ya I think mazda's worrying, I found out a week ago as well that the rx-8 has a big recall for if you rev it to high you can blow it (theres a more explamation to it Im lazy)even at a low milage as well.

Rotary engines are cool, but hella not reliable.

Rotary engines are perfectly reliable. It's not uncommon to see an FB with 300k miles. It's turbo rotaries that are questionable, and even the FC turbo II wasn't bad. The FD caused the whole mistaken thing about the rotary engine being a POS. It was faulty design, most notaby in the cooling system, which caused the problems.

TomsMR2 · 08-25-2006, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raptor13x

The FD is one of the most beautiful cars ever built. It's a shame they were so flawed.

im surprised you say that, they look girly as all hell when they're stock. it NEEDS some cosmetic mods or it just looks funny..

Raptor13x · 08-25-2006, 12:34 AM

^ Blasphemy! lol They look damned good stock, and even better with a few mods.

Enthalpy · 08-25-2006, 12:44 AM

Given how immature rotaries are compared with piston engines, it's amazing they are as far as they have come.

MR2TuRbZ · 08-25-2006, 01:53 AM

yes, almost ALL the rx8s in warm climates got recalled if they were using synthetic oil... AKA, the rotories arent staying together

killer2 · 08-25-2006, 02:11 AM

little known fact...... the first rx-7's i believe it was like the first 300, came with a certificate in the glove box for a free engine replacement. now i was a rotor head before i got into dueces, and know a fair shair about them, the mistakes that are made to make the rotory die so young is caused by driver error/owner error. also when ford baught mazda they threw on a crap load of sensors which made the 1994 fd a pos, the very rare 1992/93 is a good find cause it didnt have many sensors, but there arent that many out there.

and it doesnt fire evry 180 degrees, it fires 3 times in onbe full rotation of each rotor, kinda making it a low liter 6 cylinder. also it fires twice at each compression point. trailing and leading sparks to keep the rotor moving.

hmong337 · 08-25-2006, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MR2TuRbZ

yes, almost ALL the rx8s in warm climates got recalled if they were using synthetic oil... AKA, the rotories arent staying together

Ummm, you're not supposed to use synthetic oil in a rotory.

Mekkahfire · 08-25-2006, 03:05 PM

As said by Motortrend Mag: "The twin and sequential turbo setup was an attempt in the 90's by manufacturers to show off their engineering prowess."

Jay-Spec · 08-25-2006, 07:51 PM

well skip it then thanks guys, i will just stick with the gt30r setup.

TKMR2 · 08-25-2006, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MR2TuRbZ

100k miles? ****, thats a GREAT run for that motor, they usually die around the 50-60k mark

come on they're not THAT bad.

TomsMR2 · 08-26-2006, 03:00 AM

50-60K is a high estimate

they are that bad.

and can we stop the turbo crap in the na section? there IS a turbo section, it would make more sense to post it there.

Mekkahfire · 08-26-2006, 10:24 AM

sniff.

payne171 · 08-26-2006, 03:20 PM

As I understand it, the fd problems were as follows:
A. Rotaries can't take detonation. One good ping and the Apex Seal will blow(I once heard the apex seals described as the rotary version of a piston ring).
B. In an effort to save weight, mazda installed too small of a radiator, especially for a delicate engine.
C. Most importantly, the ECU does not adapt to intake/exhaust mods. Considering that these are often some of the first mods people make to a sports car...BOOOM!

If owners' first mod was a much larger radiator and all breathing mods got ECU tweaks at the same time, rotaries wouldn't have such a bad rep. If you ensure the engine will not have to endure detonation, ever, it will be more reliable than a piston engine because of its mechanical simplicity and the fact that it has no reciprocating parts (which leads to less vibration, friction, and stress on the internals). Nothing's going to make it less of a gas hog, though. Rotaries have to run super rich to make sure fuel gets to the corners of the combustion chamber. With that said, there is a great solution to this dilemma at http://www.hinsonsupercars.com/FDTurnkey.htm .

08-24-2006, 06:37 PM	#1 (permalink)
Jay-Spec No Skills Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Chicago Posts: 24 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Its Only 1.3 Liters The rx7s 13b is 1.3 liters and has sequential turbos(not twins). The 13b has a power pulse every 180 degrees. Mmmk a 5S-GE(Hybrid Motor) has 2.2 liters and a power stroke every 180 degrees. So why would it be a bad idea to install 13b turbos on a 5S-GE? I think it would be a nice power add, but if u see something wrong with this set up please let me know. Thank You

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08-24-2006, 07:22 PM	#2 (permalink)
Raptor13x Legendary Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Farmington Hills, MI Posts: 3,997 Thanks: 7 Thanked 44 Times in 37 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (5/100% )	The effective displacement of the 13b rotary is 2.6 liters, because a rotor fires once per revolution, while a four-stroke piston engine fires once every other rotation. The twin turbo setup off the FD RX-7 is a nightmare of complexity. It is considered highly unreliable even by RX-7 fanatics. I would highly encourage anyone to avoid the setup. Sequential turbo setups are overrated.

08-24-2006, 09:13 PM	#3 (permalink)
Enthalpy EMS Harmonizer Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 1,226 Thanks: 8 Thanked 55 Times in 43 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	Displacement should be measured in 100% VE flow over RPM. That levels the playing field, and also allows you to size a turbo. Sequential turbos are not over rated, but they definitely have their place. They are effective at generating a very nice torque curve. However, a car that's trying to be light with an engine that's already fairly heavy for a 4-banger is probably not the place for twins. Run a larger single. You don't really have the space for twins, even small twins. The plumbing would be way beyond the abilities of most shadetrees in the twin setup.

08-24-2006, 11:44 PM	#5 (permalink)
MR2TuRbZ Local V8 Killer Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 550 Thanks: 8 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	100k miles? ****, thats a GREAT run for that motor, they usually die around the 50-60k mark

08-24-2006, 11:54 PM	#6 (permalink)
ZMR2 Haterizing the people Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Omaha Posts: 1,303 Thanks: 3 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts iTrader Rating: (5/100% )	I thought it was 100k, well ya I think mazda's worrying, I found out a week ago as well that the rx-8 has a big recall for if you rev it to high you can blow it (theres a more explamation to it Im lazy)even at a low milage as well. Rotary engines are cool, but hella not reliable.

08-25-2006, 12:34 AM	#10 (permalink)
Raptor13x Legendary Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Farmington Hills, MI Posts: 3,997 Thanks: 7 Thanked 44 Times in 37 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (5/100% )	^ Blasphemy! lol They look damned good stock, and even better with a few mods.

08-25-2006, 12:44 AM	#11 (permalink)
Enthalpy EMS Harmonizer Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 1,226 Thanks: 8 Thanked 55 Times in 43 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	Given how immature rotaries are compared with piston engines, it's amazing they are as far as they have come.

08-25-2006, 01:53 AM	#12 (permalink)
MR2TuRbZ Local V8 Killer Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 550 Thanks: 8 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	yes, almost ALL the rx8s in warm climates got recalled if they were using synthetic oil... AKA, the rotories arent staying together

08-25-2006, 02:11 AM	#13 (permalink)
killer2 TSCNM Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 140 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	little known fact...... the first rx-7's i believe it was like the first 300, came with a certificate in the glove box for a free engine replacement. now i was a rotor head before i got into dueces, and know a fair shair about them, the mistakes that are made to make the rotory die so young is caused by driver error/owner error. also when ford baught mazda they threw on a crap load of sensors which made the 1994 fd a pos, the very rare 1992/93 is a good find cause it didnt have many sensors, but there arent that many out there. and it doesnt fire evry 180 degrees, it fires 3 times in onbe full rotation of each rotor, kinda making it a low liter 6 cylinder. also it fires twice at each compression point. trailing and leading sparks to keep the rotor moving.

08-25-2006, 03:05 PM	#15 (permalink)
Mekkahfire Gone But Not Forgotten Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Westerville OH Posts: 1,351 Thanks: 9 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts iTrader Rating: (2/75% )	As said by Motortrend Mag: "The twin and sequential turbo setup was an attempt in the 90's by manufacturers to show off their engineering prowess."

08-25-2006, 07:51 PM	#16 (permalink)
Jay-Spec No Skills Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Chicago Posts: 24 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	well skip it then thanks guys, i will just stick with the gt30r setup.

08-26-2006, 03:00 AM	#18 (permalink)
TomsMR2 Still not heraldo. Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Pineapple under the sea Posts: 4,911 Thanks: 18 Thanked 406 Times in 303 Posts Blog Entries: 1 iTrader Rating: (4/100% )	50-60K is a high estimate they are that bad. and can we stop the turbo crap in the na section? there IS a turbo section, it would make more sense to post it there.

08-26-2006, 10:24 AM	#19 (permalink)
Mekkahfire Gone But Not Forgotten Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Westerville OH Posts: 1,351 Thanks: 9 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts iTrader Rating: (2/75% )	sniff.

08-26-2006, 03:20 PM	#20 (permalink)
payne171 No Skills Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 16 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	As I understand it, the fd problems were as follows: A. Rotaries can't take detonation. One good ping and the Apex Seal will blow(I once heard the apex seals described as the rotary version of a piston ring). B. In an effort to save weight, mazda installed too small of a radiator, especially for a delicate engine. C. Most importantly, the ECU does not adapt to intake/exhaust mods. Considering that these are often some of the first mods people make to a sports car...BOOOM! If owners' first mod was a much larger radiator and all breathing mods got ECU tweaks at the same time, rotaries wouldn't have such a bad rep. If you ensure the engine will not have to endure detonation, ever, it will be more reliable than a piston engine because of its mechanical simplicity and the fact that it has no reciprocating parts (which leads to less vibration, friction, and stress on the internals). Nothing's going to make it less of a gas hog, though. Rotaries have to run super rich to make sure fuel gets to the corners of the combustion chamber. With that said, there is a great solution to this dilemma at http://www.hinsonsupercars.com/FDTurnkey.htm .