Capitalism: A Love Story

[TonyHuynhTwo]

Opinion time:

Even though there are huge flaws in our economic system, I love it. Things are not as bad as everybody talks about. I don't see massive inflation, deflation, unemployment (8% isn't awful), or corruption. The negative things we do see are what we concentrate our attention on a few bad seeds taking advantage of the system, the federal deficit, and a low savings rate. Everybody's focusing on these negatives and honestly putting themselves in a state where they don't see that we live in the most economically prosperous nations the world has ever seen. Even the poor in this country live like kings compared to people in other country. Focusing on the negatives and being pessimistic is a waste of time. It's like focusing on the few flaws on your car that are too hard or expensive too fix at that time (slow oil leaks and expensive body work), you forget that the car starts up and drives just fine it just has flaws which can be fixed gradually. Looking around I see a country that is still rich with oppurtunity and can still provide for the dreams of it's citizens, as long as those citizens work hard and work smart. If there are things you want to see changed do something constructive about it, if you think unemployment is a problem in your community start a business and employ people (business loans are a must here), if you think that the politicians in charge of fiscal policy are corrupt help campaign for someone that isn't, and if you think that certain corporations are corrupt don't do business with them because they offer products and services at the cheapest price. Personally I acknowledge that the American system has a lot of problems but I do constructive things about those feelings. Criticism gets you nowhere.

[IDon'tKnow]

I'd like to say that this will be the final 10 minutes I spend arguing on this thread, but I'm sure I'll be back for more sometime soon.

TonyHuynhTwo, I realize you know what you are talking about when we're speaking in economic terms but you keep seeming to miss my points entirely. Economics is a social science. Make the pie whatever size you want and slice it how you wish; you can talk about economics in the purely abstract and ascetic domain of scholarly thought but inevitably an economic system cannot exist outside of a social political system. If they can't exist independent of one another than any consideration of any given theory that doesn't address social political aspects fails to account for important variables, and is thus incomplete.

The idea that a Communist economic system could be implemented on a mass level in a social system other than Authoritarian is hardly viable. The whole basis of the theory is CENTRAL ECONOMIC CONTROL! I.E. - You must produce this and send it here..... How can you possibly know as much as you do about economics and argue otherwise?

Everyone on here complaining about the death of the American dream and spewing all of this "the rich folks are taking advantage of us" garbage need to wake up. Listen to yourselves. TonyHuynhTwo is right - we live in the most economically prosperous nation in world history - If you are middle class in the US you're standard of living is better than 90% of the world's population - and we're still complaining because we don't have any recourse to level the playing field with these wealthy elites who are in fact wealthy elites because they and their fathers (and their father's father' father's) climbed their way to the top? Quite complaining and start climbing - if you aren't in a 35% tax bracket before you die maybe your son or grandson will be. Class mobility isn't an instant gratification, as much as I know we Americans are accustom to IG, and the fact that in this country you can have class mobility over the course of a lifetime or so is a standard above most of the world and all of history.

Does that mean we should stop here and not strive for a better society? No. Does that mean that our society, government, and economic system are perfect? No. Are there still moral absolutes and preferable ideals? Yes.

America is in rough shape - We consume way more than we produce - Our debt surpasses the debt of of the rest of the world combined - Our moral traditions are being trampled under foot more and more every day - We have lots and lots and lots of problems..... They aren't just going to go away. So let's all put a little bit of effort into improving out homes, communities, cities, states, and country.... and a LOT of effort into improving ourselves; after all that's the only domain where we can legitimately be the dictator.

[Raptor13x]

Originally Posted by TonyHuynhTwo

Things are not as bad as everybody talks about. I don't see massive inflation, deflation, unemployment (8% isn't awful), or corruption.

You obviously don't live in southeast Michigan. The unemployment rate is over 20% here (from my experience, that number is grossly underestimated), and I don't know a single person under the age of 35 that makes more than $15/hr. Not ONE. Everything they say about the current economic "recession" doesn't hold a candle to how bad it is around here right now. I've been looking hardcore for a job for the past year and a half, and I'm still unemployed today- and I'm NOT picky.

[IDon'tKnow]

That's not to mention that the posted unemployment figures only take into account active job seekers. Actual nationwide estimates put it closer to 15%.

[shimric]

Originally Posted by Raptor13x

You obviously don't live in southeast Michigan. The unemployment rate is over 20% here (from my experience, that number is grossly underestimated), and I don't know a single person under the age of 35 that makes more than $15/hr. Not ONE. Everything they say about the current economic "recession" doesn't hold a candle to how bad it is around here right now. I've been looking hardcore for a job for the past year and a half, and I'm still unemployed today- and I'm NOT picky.

You're not looking hard enough. There is a piece of that American dream pie waiting for you. Unemployment in good ol' souf karolina is pretty bad. I doubt it's as bad as Michigan. I'm kind of in the same boat as you. Been hardcore searching for almost a year now. Walmart isn't hiring. I KNO RIT3.

[TonyHuynhTwo]

Well you all should come to PA then. I'm getting loads of job offers (narrowing it down to American General and Waddell & Reed, NTB even wanted to hire me as a Cashier). I just passed my CPA exam but have to wait for an elimination period (PA is gay that way) to get my actual CPA license and I will be testing for my Life, Health and accident license soon. Most of the time I spend for job related things are devoted to increasing my employability rather than interviewing. The CPA certification is not a requirement for any of the jobs I'm interviewing for but it looks great on a resume so I spent over a hundred hours getting the damn thing.

One of the stipulations to be included in the unemployment rate is you have to be actively seeking employment. Those who are unemployed and not looking for work are called discouraged workers.

[Raptor13x]

Originally Posted by shimric

You're not looking hard enough. There is a piece of that American dream pie waiting for you.

I might be able to find a job if I wanted to do something horrible for $7/hr, part time, but I think I'm better off sitting at home jerking off. I laugh at the companies hiring for under $10/hr- that's just insulting for someone who isn't 16 years old, living with mommy and daddy.

[shimric]

Originally Posted by Raptor13x

I might be able to find a job if I wanted to do something horrible for $7/hr, part time, but I think I'm better off sitting at home jerking off. I laugh at the companies hiring for under $10/hr- that's just insulting for someone who isn't 16 years old, living with mommy and daddy.

It's the new middle class. Working for $10/hr and getting food stamps to make ends meet. It's just so much more exciting!

['91mr2]

Originally Posted by TonyHuynhTwo

Opinion time:

Even though there are huge flaws in our economic system, I love it. Things are not as bad as everybody talks about. I don't see massive inflation, deflation, unemployment (8% isn't awful), or corruption. The negative things we do see are what we concentrate our attention on a few bad seeds taking advantage of the system, the federal deficit, and a low savings rate. Everybody's focusing on these negatives and honestly putting themselves in a state where they don't see that we live in the most economically prosperous nations the world has ever seen. Even the poor in this country live like kings compared to people in other country. Focusing on the negatives and being pessimistic is a waste of time. It's like focusing on the few flaws on your car that are too hard or expensive too fix at that time (slow oil leaks and expensive body work), you forget that the car starts up and drives just fine it just has flaws which can be fixed gradually. Looking around I see a country that is still rich with oppurtunity and can still provide for the dreams of it's citizens, as long as those citizens work hard and work smart. If there are things you want to see changed do something constructive about it, if you think unemployment is a problem in your community start a business and employ people (business loans are a must here), if you think that the politicians in charge of fiscal policy are corrupt help campaign for someone that isn't, and if you think that certain corporations are corrupt don't do business with them because they offer products and services at the cheapest price. Personally I acknowledge that the American system has a lot of problems but I do constructive things about those feelings. Criticism gets you nowhere.

Your right. Everything is great. Unemployment is almost as bad now as it was during the Great Depression. But things here are great. Your right.

['91mr2]

Good read here. Unemployment is higher than the 8% TonyHuynhTwo claims.

Is Unemployment the Worst Since the Great Depression? - US News and World Report

[shimric]

Originally Posted by TonyHuynhTwo

Opinion time:

Even though there are huge flaws in our economic system, I love it. Things are not as bad as everybody talks about. I don't see massive inflation, deflation, unemployment (8% isn't awful), or corruption. The negative things we do see are what we concentrate our attention on a few bad seeds taking advantage of the system, the federal deficit, and a low savings rate. Everybody's focusing on these negatives and honestly putting themselves in a state where they don't see that we live in the most economically prosperous nations the world has ever seen. Even the poor in this country live like kings compared to people in other country. Focusing on the negatives and being pessimistic is a waste of time. It's like focusing on the few flaws on your car that are too hard or expensive too fix at that time (slow oil leaks and expensive body work), you forget that the car starts up and drives just fine it just has flaws which can be fixed gradually. Looking around I see a country that is still rich with oppurtunity and can still provide for the dreams of it's citizens, as long as those citizens work hard and work smart. If there are things you want to see changed do something constructive about it, if you think unemployment is a problem in your community start a business and employ people (business loans are a must here), if you think that the politicians in charge of fiscal policy are corrupt help campaign for someone that isn't, and if you think that certain corporations are corrupt don't do business with them because they offer products and services at the cheapest price. Personally I acknowledge that the American system has a lot of problems but I do constructive things about those feelings. Criticism gets you nowhere.

Do you live in this Country?

[LeePeyton]

Where I'm at it's like 10%. Not that bad the south has a habit of having it's own economy.
Granted I have friends that get laid off but they get back to work pretty quick. It's almost a mind set really. People fear economic decline so they nose dive it trying to save money just in case. Then again the good jobs are few and far between. A friend of mine was working in a cabinet factory powder coating with 5 years experience and got caught up in a lay off. So, he could see a pay cut in $4p/hr just to have a job.

[IDon'tKnow]

The unemployment rate in my county is 3.5%. Even so - when I lost my supervisor Job with Ruths Chris I cashed out my 401k and opened my own business. I was tired of working for someone elses benefit and my marketable skills were not enough to get me what I want so I decided to chase the American dream. Sure I work about 80 hours a week and I see almost no initial benefit, but if I work hard and grow my business I'll be able to sell it one day for, hopefully, a pretty penny.

[Ncturnal]

I'm amazed that someone could honestly complain about lack of employment and opportunity while simultaneously on the other hand condemn the very thing that used to offer employment and opportunity; before the country started the march away from free market capitalism and toward big government socialism. The auto industry (as one example) can't recover as long as the government is meddling with it. If the car companies had been allowed to fail, new entrepreneurs could have bought up the failed companies and turned them into profitable companies. Instead the government had to bail them out to "save jobs" but we know first hand how well that is working. Government intervention is a big reason why American car companies were not competitive in the first place. The government essentially breaks your leg, then gives you a crutch and says "see, without us you couldn't walk".

[traintech86]

Originally Posted by Ncturnal

I'm amazed that someone could honestly complain about lack of employment and opportunity while simultaneously on the other hand condemn the very thing that used to offer employment and opportunity; before the country started the march away from free market capitalism and toward big government socialism. The auto industry (as one example) can't recover as long as the government is meddling with it. If the car companies had been allowed to fail, new entrepreneurs could have bought up the failed companies and turned them into profitable companies. Instead the government had to bail them out to "save jobs" but we know first hand how well that is working. Government intervention is a big reason why American car companies were not competitive in the first place. The government essentially breaks your leg, then gives you a crutch and says "see, without us you couldn't walk".

i both agree and disagree with you here. while the gov def has been meddling in the automotive ind, they hardly cause it to fail just so they can be its crutch. the companies make horrible choices and get all ****ed up, and then since they know the gov has their back they come back like hilary from fresh prince:

YouTube - The Fresh Prince first season

we reward their bad choices and hopefully some day we'll let them fail so someone who can do it better steps up. yes we will lose jobs initially but in the end its for the better jobs later.

[IDon'tKnow]

Originally Posted by Ncturnal

I'm amazed that someone could honestly complain about lack of employment and opportunity while simultaneously on the other hand condemn the very thing that used to offer employment and opportunity.

Are you really amazed or just disappointed?

[LeePeyton]

both FTW