CT27/550/Rom Tune

[turbonatormr2]

Originally Posted by N8s93turbo

* ATS CT27 Turbo
* Greddy IC w/SPAL fan
* Treuleo 3 inch Downpipe
* ATS Bored Fuel Rail
* ATS 50psi FPR
* 170 degree thermostat
* Tanabe B-Pipe
* SPAL engine lid fan
* HKS turbo dual exhaust
* Turboxs rfl bov
* 93 JDM Ceramic Coated intake plenum with gutted TVIS
* EGR Blockoff plates
* Greddy turbo timer
* Greddy Profec B spec 2
* Apexi Power Intake
* Spal intercooler fan
* NGK plugs
* twosrus valve cover bolts
* Greddy Oil Cap

Ok Take what yo have and get lets say a stree brawler turbo kit set up or a GT30 turbo and see what happens. You really need to get some cams, it will help you out allot.

With a GT30 and your set up with about 18-19 pounds of boost and pump gas you will get about 290 WHP. Same goes for the street brawler. Put cams in that baby add an EMS and you will get about 310-330 depanding on your fuel injectors and a good tunner. What size of injectors do you have?.

After all my research and money that I spent needlesly on trying to build a high hp Mr2 is my conclusion is that there is no such thing as cheap power or short cuts especially on the MR2 and if you are going to do it. Do it right from the begining becasue it will cost you twice as much in the end on the short cuts. A high hp Mr2 is very expensive there is no way around that.

[richw131]

Originally Posted by turbonatormr2

See you also have cams 264's. So you dont have a complete stock motor. Cams are the best things to have to help you acheive higher HP. What esle do you have?. So what I am trying to say is that he will not see close to those numbers especially on the stock motor, you dont have a complete stock motor, becasue he said he has an all stock motor. Also you are going to need to boost more that 17 to hit 280 WHP especailly on that CT27 becasue ask them to show you the flow chart on it. It can only flow so much pressure becasue of it size. Your are going to need more like 19- 21 PSI on pump gas to even get close to that.

Correction I have a 264 intake cam and a stock exhaust cam. I have not tuned the cams yet. I do not think it is unreasonable to get +30 rwhp from tuning the cams, adding the ST205 IC and 2 psi of additional boost.

19-21 psi for 280 rwhp? What are you smoking?!? I guess I will have to wait until I get the car back on the dyno. I guarantee that I will not have to boost 19-21 psi to hit 280 rwhp.....In fact I promise you I won't.

[turbonatormr2]

Originally Posted by richw131

Correction I have a 264 intake cam and a stock exhaust cam. I have not tuned the cams yet. I do not think it is unreasonable to get +30 rwhp from tuning the cams, adding the ST205 IC and 2 psi of additional boost.

19-21 psi for 280 rwhp? What are you smoking?!? I guess I will have to wait until I get the car back on the dyno. I guarantee that I will not have to boost 19-21 psi to hit 280 rwhp.....In fact I promise you I won't.

Lol.. Ok please post the dyno graphs and the amount of boost and why type octane fuel. When do you think you'll have a chance to dyno it.

[Lego]

See thats what i dont get all these mods and 17 psi and still under 300hp what the hell do you have to do to break 300-350 hp??????????

[ursoboostd]

Originally Posted by Lego

See thats what i dont get all these mods and 17 psi and still under 300hp what the hell do you have to do to break 300-350 hp??????????

Get a TD06 or any other bigger turbo. -Wade-

[turbonatormr2]

Originally Posted by Lego

See thats what i dont get all these mods and 17 psi and still under 300hp what the hell do you have to do to break 300-350 hp??????????

The best way to do it is have your block an your head built, and a good turbo. The CT27 or CT26 will not get you there. Especailly on the CT26. On the CT27 can be done but on 110 octane and like 25 pounds of boost. That's not a good way to attain 300 WHP. To much heat and allot ot stress on you HD and pistons and so forth. A high horse power MR2 is very expensive and not as easy as some people make it out to be and dont let anybody fool you in thinking that is not.

Here is what I would recommend to break the 300 WHP Mark.

1. A good turbo. (A CT27 is not a good HP turbo to attain 300 WHP let alone the CT26 especailly on pump gas. Something like a steet brawler,TDO6, Garrett turbo. (you get the idea)

2.If you have a stock motor and want to leave the block alone then I would recommend building the head with some cams and so forth.

3. I would recommend 850cc fuel injectors. The 550cc are good to about 350 WHP but that's pushing them. The mr2 was designed to run rich. The 850ccc will give you allot of extra room and can help you with cooling also especially on the number 2 and 3 piston that's if you are runing a stock intake manifold. Also it will help you down the line when you want to make more power over 400 WHP. (keep ahead of the game) Why spend money on 550cc when you are problably going to replace them down line some time.

4. Ems system (if you cant afford one I would suggest you save your money for it until you can) Imo the best one for the the money is the Nemesis. It's a plug and play system.

5. A really good tuner like Noshoes, Ricky-b and so forth.

6. A good source of fuel supply like a fuel rail and a better fuel pump.

7. A fuel pressure regulator. (Good thing to have in case you need to adjust the fuel Pressure)

8. A good intake manifold like the Chris-K intake manifold I would also recommend with a 70mm throttle body. (more air coming in)

9. Get rid of the TVIS

10. A boost controler to control boost.

11. A metal head gasket

If you do this I gurantee you will get about 340-350 WHP on pump gas and 17 pounds of boost.

Dont forget a really good tune.

[richw131]

OK, here are the dyno graphs I said I will post. They are both at 15 psi and on 93 octane. The temp outside was about 90 degrees and I was using the stock IC. They were done back to back (2 min. apart). You can see the power loss is 3.3 rwhp and 11.1 rwtq. Actually the runs were 2 min 48 sec. apart.


So someone explain to me why you can't get +30 rwhp from tuning the 264 intake and stock exhaust cam, adding and ST205 IC and raising the boost 2 psi.....

Also, turbonatormr2 explain to me why this is a "bad" turbo?

[N8s93turbo]

I am running the stock 440s and will be tuning with a greddy emanage in the next couple months. My goal is/was only 300rwhp.

[turbonatormr2]

Originally Posted by richw131

OK, here are the dyno graphs I said I will post. They are both at 15 psi and on 93 octane. The temp outside was about 90 degrees and I was using the stock IC. They were done back to back (2 min. apart). You can see the power loss is 3.3 rwhp and 11.1 rwtq. Actually the runs were 2 min 48 sec. apart.


So someone explain to me why you can't get +30 rwhp from tuning the 264 intake and stock exhaust cam, adding and ST205 IC and raising the boost 2 psi.....

Also, turbonatormr2 explain to me why this is a "bad" turbo?

How much do you think you get every time you add a pound of boost?. For every 1 pound of boost is about 10rwhp. The reason why is becasue it's a small turbo and it can only flow so much so you need to use higher boost levels.

Again read here.
http://www.mrcontrols.com/primers/sizing.htm

Ok! It's not a bad turbo to use, but it's not good turbo for attaining high HP especially for 300 WHP and above because of it's size. If you are after high hp this is not the tubo you want to use. If you are looking for above regular than stock HP on pump gas with stock internals then this is your turbo. Depanding on what your goals are. If you are after a high hp Mr2 you are better off saving your money to buy the right one for your needs and goals. Other wise you will be spending money needlessly. Like I did...

[Enthalpy]

Holy CRAP you are running lean!! Wow! That's one of the worst AFR curves I have seen! Even the first one, which is on the rich side, is horribly tuned. It's either that or you are running out of fuel because of a fuel system glitch. I suspect bad tuning because the rich curve wouldn't be a mirror of the lean curve if you had a fuel system glitch. You might have an AFM glitch, though.

I wouldn't say the CT27 is a horrible turbo, but be realistic with its potential. It's not a 300+ rwhp turbo. If you want a 300+ rwhp turbo, buy a 300+ rwhp turbo. TD06, Street Brawler, GT30.

Turbonatormr2 is quite right. The ATS "tuned" ROM package is a cheap way of getting some power, but don't expect too much out of it. Let's just assume you are making 280 at 17 psi and 320 at 22 with pump and race gas respectively, that's 5 psi only giving you 40 whp with a fuel change! That right there SHOULD be telling you all something!!

By the way, if you say you are at 15 psi, you have to prove it with a datalog of pressure. Not an issue with an EMS.

That package was tuned on an accelerometer, not a dyno. A dynojet without an eddy-current brake is NOT a tuning device, it's a pissing contest device.

That's definitely a "cammed" torque curve. With stock cams, you wouldn't be anywhere near that level of power.

Something else I saw in this thread - Someone installed the "tuned" ROM and blew a knock sensor off the bat?? Doesn't that worry you? It certainly would worry me!

Did you reset your base timing after installing the ROM?

Some have measured the stock AFM's limit at 300 rwhp. I have heard ATS representatives echo this. Why on Earth are you shooting for 300 rwhp with the ROM? You do realize that near 300 rwhp, you are a simple boost spike away from a BLOWN ENGINE, right?

Don't use this package with the stock intercooler. I think the common-sense approach of removing heat before adding additional heat goes without saying. Do the intercooler first, for the love of all that is holy, decent and pure!!

Lastly, the stock intercooler does not heat soak by simply driving down the highway. If this were the case, it would be an interheater and it would show up on IAT logs. It simply does not behave this way!

[richw131]

Originally Posted by turbonatormr2

How much do you think you get every time you add a pound of boost?. For every 1 pound of boost is about 10rwhp. The reason why is becasue it's a small turbo and it can only flow so much so you need to use higher boost levels.

I am aware of how much hp you get with every psi of boost...but it also depends on the efficiency of your engine. A stock motor will gain less per psi than a fully built motor.

Originally Posted by turbonatormr2

Again read here.
http://www.mrcontrols.com/primers/sizing.htm

I've ready it several times.....

Originally Posted by turbonatormr2

Ok! It's not a bad turbo to use, but it's not good turbo for attaining high HP especially for 300 WHP and above because of it's size. If you are after high hp this is not the tubo you want to use.

This would be under the catagory of.....

DUH, NO ****!

Originally Posted by turbonatormr2

If you are looking for above regular than stock HP on pump gas with stock internals then this is your turbo.

Exactly, if you are looking for stock up to 300 rwhp, this is the turbo your looking for. If your looking for 400 rwhp, look elsewhere.

[richw131]

Originally Posted by Enthalpy

Holy CRAP you are running lean!! Wow! That's one of the worst AFR curves I have seen! Even the first one, which is on the rich side, is horribly tuned. It's either that or you are running out of fuel because of a fuel system glitch. I suspect bad tuning because the rich curve wouldn't be a mirror of the lean curve if you had a fuel system glitch. You might have an AFM glitch, though.

Yes, it was very lean. That is why that was the last pulls of the day. I went back to ATS and had them retunre the ROM. I have the new ROM chip and will re-dyno the car once I have the ST205 IC installed.

Originally Posted by Enthalpy

I wouldn't say the CT27 is a horrible turbo, but be realistic with its potential. It's not a 300+ rwhp turbo. If you want a 300+ rwhp turbo, buy a 300+ rwhp turbo. TD06, Street Brawler, GT30.

I know it is not a 300+ rwhp turbo, I never said it was a 300+ rwhp turbo. Who are you quoting?

Originally Posted by Enthalpy

Turbonatormr2 is quite right. The ATS "tuned" ROM package is a cheap way of getting some power, but don't expect too much out of it. Let's just assume you are making 280 at 17 psi and 320 at 22 with pump and race gas respectively, that's 5 psi only giving you 40 whp with a fuel change! That right there SHOULD be telling you all something!!

Where are you getting you info. My goal is 270-290 rwhp. If I was looking for 300+ rwhp, I would have bought the streetbrawler kit.

Originally Posted by Enthalpy

By the way, if you say you are at 15 psi, you have to prove it with a datalog of pressure. Not an issue with an EMS.

Um, are you readying the same thread as I am. I do not have an EMS. I have a tuned ROM from ATS. No datalogs. And, if you don't believe that it is at 15 psi, I don't care. I know what it is and that is all I care about.

Originally Posted by Enthalpy

That package was tuned on an accelerometer, not a dyno. A dynojet without an eddy-current brake is NOT a tuning device, it's a pissing contest device.

Yeah, yeah....whatever....Sorry the entire world doesn't own the same dyno that you approve of, but the fact is I use a dyno to compare what I was before to what I am now.

Originally Posted by Enthalpy

That's definitely a "cammed" torque curve. With stock cams, you wouldn't be anywhere near that level of power.

You might want to actually "READ" the posts before you type. I stated that I had a 264 intake cam and a stock exhaust cam.

Originally Posted by Enthalpy

Did you reset your base timing after installing the ROM?

Yes, and....

Originally Posted by Enthalpy

Some have measured the stock AFM's limit at 300 rwhp. I have heard ATS representatives echo this. Why on Earth are you shooting for 300 rwhp with the ROM? You do realize that near 300 rwhp, you are a simple boost spike away from a BLOWN ENGINE, right?

Again, read the posts. I never said I was going beyond 300 rwhp. My goal is 270-290 rwhp.

Originally Posted by Enthalpy

Don't use this package with the stock intercooler. I think the common-sense approach of removing heat before adding additional heat goes without saying. Do the intercooler first, for the love of all that is holy, decent and pure!!

Hence the install of the ST205 IC....again read...

Originally Posted by Enthalpy

Lastly, the stock intercooler does not heat soak by simply driving down the highway. If this were the case, it would be an interheater and it would show up on IAT logs. It simply does not behave this way!

Who are you referring to? You might want to specify.....

[SpeedballTrix]

It doesnt look THAT lean to me.
After 3k it stays under 13:1.
Sure its a little lean but it's not motor-blowingly lean.

I do agree that youre heak soaking badly, but you already know that =)

But idk why im bothering to post in this thread, this is a flamefest just waiting to explode =P

*Dons flameproof suit*

[richw131]

Regular or extra crispy?

[Enthalpy]

Oops, posted twice.

[Enthalpy]

Originally Posted by richw131

Yes, it was very lean. That is why that was the last pulls of the day. I went back to ATS and had them retunre the ROM. I have the new ROM chip and will re-dyno the car once I have the ST205 IC installed.

Good!

Originally Posted by richw131

I know it is not a 300+ rwhp turbo, I never said it was a 300+ rwhp turbo. Who are you quoting?

Someone else did. I belive it was ATS. I'm just correcting hype.

Where are you getting you info. My goal is 270-290 rwhp. If I was looking for 300+ rwhp, I would have bought the streetbrawler kit.

News flash: I didn't address the post to YOU alone.

Um, are you readying the same thread as I am. I do not have an EMS. I have a tuned ROM from ATS. No datalogs. And, if you don't believe that it is at 15 psi, I don't care. I know what it is and that is all I care about.

I'll be equally sarcastic. I realize you don't have an EMS. Once again, not addressing to you, just a general observation.

Yeah, yeah....whatever....Sorry the entire world doesn't own the same dyno that you approve of, but the fact is I use a dyno to compare what I was before to what I am now.

Actually, it's quickly becoming accepted by the tuning "world".

You might want to actually "READ" the posts before you type. I stated that I had a 264 intake cam and a stock exhaust cam.

Intake cam makes more difference than does the exhaust. That's why I refered to it as a "cammed" curve.

Hence the install of the ST205 IC....again read...

NOT ADDRESSED TO YOU!

Who are you referring to? You might want to specify.....

obviously the guy that talked about driving on the freeway and IC heat soak. I don't remember who it was.

[MR2TRD1]

I'll admit your guys are a little over my head in some issues. But I've taking in more from reading your comments about turbo sizing than any other site. But I agree...its starting to be a flaming party...and no the gay kind

[skillzo1]

I'm startin to read more and more bad stuff on the rom tune.

[3sgtepower]

I am deciding against taking this route also. I have to change my turbo out soon, cuz i think its broken, but its definitkly not as fast as before it hit 25psi. It doesnt build boost much, its going to have to come off.

Now your making me think that if I upgrade the turbo and want reliable power, I have to upgrade the IC.

What about a ct20b? Now those are about half the price of the ct27, but from the dynographs youve seen, does the ct20b or ct27 make more horsepower/more torque? One member made a high 11 second quarter using this turbo so i figure it would be good to get me atleast into the high 12's.

Some of us need a turbo NOW.my turbo broke a couple weeks ago, and the money for a new isnt here, not for another month. I dont want to be without turbo power for several months while i save for a big turbokit and IC. I figure the ct20b keeps its resale value well, and will get me buy til i can get enough for a 20g or something. So what do you think of the ct20b, I once saw a 20000 mile one go for $355.00 shipped, good turbo for the dollar?

[ursoboostd]

^That would be a good deal, but your still buying used. Never know what your going to get. Id say the CT27 will hold a decent value too. CT27>CT20B