For the canyon runners!

[deucegirl03]

thanks guys glad you likeded it!

Jason those are all lovely drives. I used to come up the 138 from the IE when i lived out that way and i would get restless but didn't want to hit Euclid as that road is a burn.
Yes with our cars the rear does want to come out from behind, esp the 91's as they have diff rear susp geometry from the later makes...def gotta be careful, one of my worst fears (aside from wildlife) is hitting a patch of gravel at high speeds...

[randomxzero]

ya i know i havent encountered dirt or gravel with my MKI
but i have in an FF if you know how to drive you can come back from it but a lot of people crash because of it..
i can only imagine in a tail happy car!! fish wipping or spinning out dam...
i wanna drift it because its pretty easy to get that rear end out just controling it and keeping it steady at an angle would be hard no?

[Mark_Dorman]

Originally Posted by randomxzero

i can only imagine in a tail happy car!! fish wipping or spinning out dam...
i wanna drift it because its pretty easy to get that rear end out just controling it and keeping it steady at an angle would be hard no?

The car doesn't necessarily break loose in the rear that easily. Most mid-engine cars have a very high limit. it's more the fact that when they break loose it's very sudden and extreme (depending on the setup). Because of the weight distribution (more weight in the rear) the majority of your traction control will be in the rear. So when the rear end does come around there's not as much control in the front. Also as the back end is sliding it will more abruptly gain traction (more rapidly than a front engine RWD car) making a drift much harder to manage.

Originally Posted by deucegirl03

Yes with our cars the rear does want to come out from behind, esp the 91's as they have diff rear susp geometry from the later makes...def gotta be careful, one of my worst fears (aside from wildlife) is hitting a patch of gravel at high speeds...

The 91-92 suspension geometry is actually suppose to have a higher limit than the 93+ setup. The limits of the 91-92 are suppose to be higher but they do break loose much more abruptly. That's why a lot of people prefer the 93+. It is safer because of the gradual loss of traction in the rear. The 91-92 suspension is similar to the setup used on the Lotus Elise and Exige. The Lotus has an incredibly high cornering limit...but once you reach it...you can kiss the back end goodbye . Same goes for our 91-92's...it's all really preference though...

[randomxzero]

ya i got you mark..

i saw kelvins mr2 at Turnbull o0o0o so sexy!

[EvilElvis]

you did? where were you?

[randomxzero]

Ya i was with all the cars that were parked. my car isnt up yet so i got picked up..
but i saw the patched up red mr2 and the white one..

[EvilElvis]

yep mines the patched up one lol, how did the 20v sound?

[Davis]

Originally Posted by deucegirl03

one of my worst fears (aside from wildlife)

You afraid of giraffes Ren?

[randomxzero]

Originally Posted by EvilElvis

yep mines the patched up one lol, how did the 20v sound?

sounded real clean!!
wasnt too loud which was good
but was smooth flowing

[anny]

it seems like that I am also the first time to come here !

[deucegirl03]

Originally Posted by Davis

You afraid of giraffes Ren?

ROFLMFAO! no man we have deer in the mountains out here. one of my friends almost died because of one that ran out in front of her on a late night/early morning drive
scares me man idk what i'd do in that situation....

tho there is a wildlife refuge back Little Tujunga so who knows what could end up out there?

i know someone who had a racehorse run out in front of him on a main surface street out here! Horse:1, Civic:0

[Jason.MZW20]

Originally Posted by deucegirl03

ROFLMFAO! no man we have deer in the mountains out here. one of my friends almost died because of one that ran out in front of her on a late night/early morning drive
scares me man idk what i'd do in that situation....

LOL. I remember on one of my drives through the 2 to Glendale there was a whole family of deer just standing in the road as I came around a corner. I felt like I was gonna fly outta the car (with my seat belt on, of course) I braked so hard. They sure did take their time to clear out too. It put a whole new meaning on deer (x4) in headlights.

Originally Posted by Mark_Dorman

The 91-92 suspension geometry is actually suppose to have a higher limit than the 93+ setup. The limits of the 91-92 are suppose to be higher but they do break loose much more abruptly. That's why a lot of people prefer the 93+. It is safer because of the gradual loss of traction in the rear. The 91-92 suspension is similar to the setup used on the Lotus Elise and Exige. The Lotus has an incredibly high cornering limit...but once you reach it...you can kiss the back end goodbye . Same goes for our 91-92's...it's all really preference though...

It does have quite a high limit, but certain things upset the rear quite easily. Like my lowered 2 hates hitting bumps at the rear, but my stock one (both 91s) will take them fine. I find it interesting what suspension mods will do to the car. Since the lowered 2 squats more, the suspension geometry is a little different, and I usually get an alignment to counter that so it's a little more forgiving. I usually run toe-out up front and toe-in at the rear on my lowered 2 to counter the rear toe change under braking. My lowered 2 also has about -1.4 degrees of camber at the rear (don't remember the stock spec), and it corners like a champ, but it does get upset easy (also have TRD sways F/R). The stock one keeps its regular alignment and likes it that way.

A patch of dirt, gravel, or a little water are also quite dangerous. Hell I was turning at a light and right before the light is storm drain ditch/water runoff ditch that just happened to have a little water running through it. Turned normally and the rear stepped out and moved quite quickly toward the sidewalk. It was easy to correct because I was going so slow, but I can just imagine hitting something like a little patch of water or gravel at a higher speed. That's what scares me. You have to have lightning fast reflexes and correct just enough to save it. A little over and you spin around, a little under and you might hit a guardrail or mountain side. But if it snaps, there's no saving it no matter what you do.

[Mark_Dorman]

That is true...the rear is fairly sensitive. I know the suspension setups can be noticeably changed by something as little as a couple PSI in tire pressure. That Rear TRD sway bar isn't helping your rear stay planted though. That's probably a big reason yours gets upset easily by bumps in turns. I'll agree though...Gravel and Wet Roads are not something I mess around in. I haven't had to deal with my back end sliding out because of road conditions but I know it's not fun based on motorcycle experiences. All the more reasons I don't push the limits too far on the streets.

What kind/size tires are you running? Tire size will make a difference too in how much the back stays planted. (I'm not trying to educate you since you seem to know how you car is setup, I just spell things out incase someone else doesn't understand ).

[Jason.MZW20]

Originally Posted by Mark_Dorman

What kind/size tires are you running? Tire size will make a difference too in how much the back stays planted. (I'm not trying to educate you since you seem to know how you car is setup, I just spell things out incase someone else doesn't understand ).

I run 225/50/16s. Slightly oversized. I usually adjust my tire pressure to understeer rather than oversteer. So I keep my front tire pressures higher to break the front tires free sooner than the rears and sometimes I get moderate amounts of understeer since there's already so much weight on the rear tires anyway. If it's a nice day, I'll run 30-32 psi up front, and 35psi at the rear to get some rotation. That's only if I'm feeling up to the challenge though. Haha. In the rain though, I tend to put my pressures lower because I've hydroplaned quite quickly with higher tire pressures. Not a fun experience either.

[deucegirl03]

yeah i have had similar experiences myself. the last few storms we've gotten made it quite scary driving thru the valley as there are numerous ditches that fill up with water and i was basically hydroplaning everywhere....
i find suspension geometry fascinating, i learned a lot about it working on superlates in 2007, especially tire pressures and staggers. its amazing how just a few psi here or there will dramatically change the behavior of the vehicle. plus its a free method of making adjustments, and its kinda a dying art too. what i like to call "super secret ****". most people get that glazed over look when i start spouting off tire pressures and what adjustments i like to play with for various conditions

[Jason.MZW20]

Originally Posted by deucegirl03

what i like to call "super secret ****". most people get that glazed over look when i start spouting off tire pressures and what adjustments i like to play with for various conditions

Haha. Tire pressure is one of the easiest ways to change the balance of the car. I'm not sure why more people don't do it. It's not like we can just turn a knob and change our brake balance (I wish) or make simple downforce adjustments like F1.

I always carry a tire pressure gauge with me and note the performance at differing tire pressures front and rear.

[deucegirl03]

niice that's the way to do it!
i need a nice tire pressure gauge with a bleeder valve on it and watnot. all i have is a hokey lil thing and its def not useful when making adjustments a pound at a time...ah sigh once i get her running i will pick one up...

[deucegirl03]

please god buddah allah jesus whoever is listening up there let me get my car buttoned up this weekend cuz if i dont hit a canyon soon i will ****ing die! :fur ious:

[masagsxr]

tsk tsk tsk.... they say patience is a virtue.... good things are worth waiting for Ren.. Hang in there

[deucegirl03]

im trying mixxer....but my patience is growing thin...
you are right tho, and if i were to do all of this a second time it would take me a third of the time to do it cuz i know so many things i didn't at the beginning of this escapade...