Yet another question for the EMS gurus

Psycho · 03-28-2008, 08:20 PM

I'm having trouble deciding on which EMS to use. I like the Apexi unit based on its cost, but I noticed that it doesn't allow for the user to tune timing values. My question is: Is tuning the timing in the ecu really all that necessary considering we have distributor caps? I just don't wanna buy the Power FC and not be able to utilize higher octane fuels to their highest potential.

RickyB · 03-29-2008, 02:09 AM

The PFC is a full stand alone providing full control of fuel AND ignition timing.

mr2ya · 03-29-2008, 02:35 AM

YES
few degrees could be the differnce in making 400hp all day
to kaboom...!!!!!!....!!!!!!!
a good piggyback unit is the new AEM F/IC controler
it controls fuel +or- %100, unlike most +or-%30in most units
timing control, vtec, Ivtec, mivec, and yes vvti and more....
you can alter injector size for larger inectors......................
and best of all a 2bar 29psi on board map sensor.
you cant totally remove mass, maf sensor but you can elimanate it from the air flow..
running map sensor instead of mass or maf can greatly provide more HP
MSRP is $440 but look around. 4 best deal
this is what i plan to use with beams redtop turbo engine. soon TB

stand alone is best but
1200-$2000 cost

Psycho · 03-29-2008, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr2ya

YES
few degrees could be the differnce in making 400hp all day
to kaboom...!!!!!!....!!!!!!!
a good piggyback unit is the new AEM F/IC controler
it controls fuel +or- %100, unlike most +or-%30in most units
timing control, vtec, Ivtec, mivec, and yes vvti and more....
you can alter injector size for larger inectors......................
and best of all a 2bar 29psi on board map sensor.
you cant totally remove mass, maf sensor but you can elimanate it from the air flow..
running map sensor instead of mass or maf can greatly provide more HP
MSRP is $440 but look around. 4 best deal
this is what i plan to use with beams redtop turbo engine. soon TB

What are some of the drawbacks of using the AEM piggyback? Did they address the partial throttle problems that other piggyback units have?

mr2ya · 03-30-2008, 02:17 AM

dont know but, my friend works at eagle rods. (sales rep-designer)
and their booth at 07 sema show was next to AEM's
he talked to the guys about all my plans, and they told him this would work just fine..
some other PB's do have settings for partial throttle, but i dont know how good or bad
they work.
the guy i mentioned earlier, is the same guy i have reffered to in other posts and reply's
that has a degree in fluid and air flow. he's a very smart guy...
what are your power goals?

Psycho · 03-30-2008, 03:19 PM

I never make power goals with any of my cars. Building horsepower is like feeding a coke habit: Sure, small amounts do fine for now. But a few months down the road, you need more.

With that being said, I guess standalone is still my best option. I'll save money in the long-run, by not having to upgrade my fuel management twice. I really wish MR2's had something like OpenECU. Free reflash and data logging software which is capable of supporting 600whp reliably.

mr2ya · 03-31-2008, 03:17 PM

found out today.
its the next best thing to stand alone.
tunes with a laptop, partial throttle adjustments and all.
it does not have luanch controls, full throttle shift, nos control, boost control, anti lag.
but uses the same basic format as their plug and play units.
it really is tha sh** more than 500hp might not be advisible but who knows?

karl · 06-19-2008, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr2ya

found out today.
its the next best thing to stand alone.
tunes with a laptop, partial throttle adjustments and all.
it does not have luanch controls, full throttle shift, nos control, boost control, anti lag.
but uses the same basic format as their plug and play units.
it really is tha sh** more than 500hp might not be advisible but who knows?

and what happens to it when the injectors go static open? i bet it freaks the hell out. it's basically a pulsewidth modifier, taking the pulsewidth from the prior injector and modifying it, then outputting it to the next cylinder in line. if i read right, at lower rpm it takes the same cylinder's pulse and delays/changes it for the next injection event, and at higher rpm/load it takes the pulse from the cylinder in front of it. maybe it's the other way around.. i can't remember off the top of my head.

either way, once the injectors go 100% duty cycle, there's no longer a pulsewidth for it to modify. either it shuts off completely, or it goes from (99%-correction) to 100% open. that would be great for driveability.

it's meant mostly for OBD2 cars. i have serious doubts as to its capability in working with the stock 3SGT ECU.

alamoryan · 07-08-2008, 11:57 PM

we use the aem ems and we make our own wasted spark distributorless system for it, you can tune every aspect of the engine, using an aem ems on the stock turbo i managed 268hp and 291ftlbs, astounding for a stock turbo, it died two days later. it was all due to tuning though. the power fc works just as good but doesnt give you the option to have additional outputs and inputs, like the distributorless, egt sensors, and the ability to just get rid of useless crap in the engine bay. of course each cylinder was tuned individually on my car. i would say for the average tuner the power fc is a wonderful system, for more options the aem works really well and unlike others there is more than 2 people on the planet who know how to tune them.

03-28-2008, 08:20 PM	#1 (permalink)
Psycho MAY CAUSE CANCER Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Hiding in your closet with an axe Posts: 71 Thanks: 5 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Yet another question for the EMS gurus I'm having trouble deciding on which EMS to use. I like the Apexi unit based on its cost, but I noticed that it doesn't allow for the user to tune timing values. My question is: Is tuning the timing in the ecu really all that necessary considering we have distributor caps? I just don't wanna buy the Power FC and not be able to utilize higher octane fuels to their highest potential.

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03-29-2008, 02:09 AM	#2 (permalink)
RickyB Automotive Cartographer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: California Posts: 221 Thanks: 0 Thanked 114 Times in 33 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	The PFC is a full stand alone providing full control of fuel AND ignition timing.

03-29-2008, 02:35 AM	#3 (permalink)
mr2ya Banned Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: memphis TN. Posts: 261 Thanks: 1 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	YES few degrees could be the differnce in making 400hp all day to kaboom...!!!!!!....!!!!!!! a good piggyback unit is the new AEM F/IC controler it controls fuel +or- %100, unlike most +or-%30in most units timing control, vtec, Ivtec, mivec, and yes vvti and more.... you can alter injector size for larger inectors...................... and best of all a 2bar 29psi on board map sensor. you cant totally remove mass, maf sensor but you can elimanate it from the air flow.. running map sensor instead of mass or maf can greatly provide more HP MSRP is $440 but look around. 4 best deal this is what i plan to use with beams redtop turbo engine. soon TB stand alone is best but 1200-$2000 cost

03-30-2008, 02:17 AM	#5 (permalink)
mr2ya Banned Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: memphis TN. Posts: 261 Thanks: 1 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	dont know but, my friend works at eagle rods. (sales rep-designer) and their booth at 07 sema show was next to AEM's he talked to the guys about all my plans, and they told him this would work just fine.. some other PB's do have settings for partial throttle, but i dont know how good or bad they work. the guy i mentioned earlier, is the same guy i have reffered to in other posts and reply's that has a degree in fluid and air flow. he's a very smart guy... what are your power goals?

03-30-2008, 03:19 PM	#6 (permalink)
Psycho MAY CAUSE CANCER Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Hiding in your closet with an axe Posts: 71 Thanks: 5 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	I never make power goals with any of my cars. Building horsepower is like feeding a coke habit: Sure, small amounts do fine for now. But a few months down the road, you need more. With that being said, I guess standalone is still my best option. I'll save money in the long-run, by not having to upgrade my fuel management twice. I really wish MR2's had something like OpenECU. Free reflash and data logging software which is capable of supporting 600whp reliably.

03-31-2008, 03:17 PM	#7 (permalink)
mr2ya Banned Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: memphis TN. Posts: 261 Thanks: 1 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	found out today. its the next best thing to stand alone. tunes with a laptop, partial throttle adjustments and all. it does not have luanch controls, full throttle shift, nos control, boost control, anti lag. but uses the same basic format as their plug and play units. it really is tha sh** more than 500hp might not be advisible but who knows?

07-08-2008, 11:57 PM	#9 (permalink)
alamoryan will it ever end? Join Date: May 2008 Location: Grapevine, Tx Posts: 75 Thanks: 0 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	we use the aem ems and we make our own wasted spark distributorless system for it, you can tune every aspect of the engine, using an aem ems on the stock turbo i managed 268hp and 291ftlbs, astounding for a stock turbo, it died two days later. it was all due to tuning though. the power fc works just as good but doesnt give you the option to have additional outputs and inputs, like the distributorless, egt sensors, and the ability to just get rid of useless crap in the engine bay. of course each cylinder was tuned individually on my car. i would say for the average tuner the power fc is a wonderful system, for more options the aem works really well and unlike others there is more than 2 people on the planet who know how to tune them.