eBay IC cores: for low power only

[RickyB]

I finally had someone come in with a reasonably built MR2 for me to tune with one of the popular eBay IC cores. Average manifold temperatures rose 25C (45F) during a single 4th gear Dynojet pull. This was with the shop temperatures ranging in the low 60's. I hate to think what I would have seen on a hot day. The car made 342rwhp on short 3rd gear pulls, but it showed a peak power drop of over 20rwhp between 3rd gear and 4th gear pulls because of heatsoak. By comparison, a Turbohoses Stage 9 IC core only showed a 5C (9F) temperature rise during a 4th gear pull at similar power levels on a warmer day. These eBay cores might make fine replacements for the stock IC on low power 170-250rwhp MR2s, but the datalogs show that they don't belong on 300rwhp cars.

[PHOENIX]

That is awesome information!

[canadam]

Originally Posted by RickyB

These eBay cores might make fine replacements for the stock IC on low power 170-250rwhp MR2s, but the datalogs show that they don't belong on 300rwhp cars.

Would you say the same about the authentic Greddy product, Ricky?

[Sang]

Originally Posted by canadam

Would you say the same about the authentic Greddy product, Ricky?

Here's a datalog RickyB posted some time ago on a 430whp setup and a 3rd gear pull. Over 20*C increase after a single pull. Albeit at almost 100whp more than this one on an XS power core.

[RickyB]

The GReddy is a little better. I have seen the Greddy core work fine during hot dyno sessions up to the 320-340rwhp level. For extended track usage, I would not recommend the eBay cores above 250rwhp and the Greddy cores above 300rwhp. For street use, another 50rwhp should be fine on these unless you live in a very hot place. As far as sidemounts go, the Turbohoses Stage 9 appears capable of supporting 350rwhp track and 400rwhp street. Beyond that, it's trunk mount or A2W and these are all pretty much custom so their capabilities are all over the map. I've seen very poor A2W setups that aren't much better than a Greddy sidemount and I've seen some that seem to take as many fourth gear pulls at 400rwhp as you want to throw at them without a hint of heatsoak.

Mid-engine cars are in general screwed when it comes to intercooling. Massive amounts of cool air flow in the rear is much harder to come by than in the front and A2W adds the second heat-exchanger stage for which you must pay a penalty.

[baktasht]

Ricky, any idea what sort of fan/shroud/etc was on the ebay intercooler (if any)?

[canadam]

Is a decreased cooling performance a result of increased flow in the eBay cores, as opposed to the Greddy ones?

[RickyB]

Originally Posted by baktasht

Ricky, any idea what sort of fan/shroud/etc was on the ebay intercooler (if any)?

It had a shroud with a puller fan and a large cooling fan was positioned on the floor pointed at the side vent to simulate external air flow. Whose shroud I did not ask. Shrouds are both good and bad. They help cool the core when the car is not moving or moving very slowly but they restrict air flow when the car is moving quickly.

[baktasht]

^^ Thats definitely good to know.

[Tyler H]

Ricky,

What's your take on one of these cheap 'ebay' cores combined with a DIY Water/Alcohol injection system? One could conceivably get both going for less cash than even a basic 'respectable' intercooler.

The DSM and turbo Buick crowd use this $200 DIY water injection setup with great success.

Welcome to my Do It Yourself Water and Alcohol Injection Site

[Weasy2k]

if you add WI to any setup you get great results. It would defiantly help a poor IC core, but you are buying and setting up all this complicated stuff when you could spend a bit more and setup just a intercooler such as the Turbohoses setup.
This is why i like A2W....i wonder how good the cheaper A2W stuff is....
Great info Ricky!

[Sang]

Originally Posted by Weasy2k

you could spend a bit more and setup just a intercooler such as the Turbohoses setup.

The TH spearco kit wasn't exactly cheap. They used to run $1100+ IIRC. Never-the-less, it isn't sold anymore AFAIK. At least that's what Pred mentions since spearco stopped supplying the core with 3" endtanks.

[Weasy2k]

What i was trying to say was that you could spend more on a good core and not have to deal with setting up a water injection system which can be overwhelming to some people.

[Sang]

Yeah I know. But what I'm just saying is that there aren't many, if any SMIC kits worth buying that can put up with the demands some the power goals some of these people are looking for (>350whp). The Apex-i/Phoenix Power setups were enticing and Kris recently tuned his 400+whp setup with no soak with one, but they are rare/discontinued/hard to come by used. And the TH kit is no longer available. The next best thing now is the Bill's version of the Spearco kit.

I'm just saying that if someone were serious with their power goals that a simple greddy/ebay core can't suffice. SMIC shouldn't be something the need to be looking for. And if they go to A2W, properly setting one up is quite a bit more complex than a supplemental injection (water and what have you).

[Weasy2k]

I agree with you there Sang.

I like the A2W setups myself but i would not recommend it to anyone who is unfamiliar with them or how they work yet still want to get things done on their own (for whatever reason)

I wonder how berk's kits hold up to the task

[RickyB]

Originally Posted by Sang

The TH spearco kit wasn't exactly cheap. They used to run $1100+ IIRC. Never-the-less, it isn't sold anymore AFAIK. At least that's what Pred mentions since spearco stopped supplying the core with 3" endtanks.

You can buy it, but the price is close to $2K now. Turbohoses has to pay more for the cores since the volume is so low. They used to sell about 1-2 a month, but with the rise of the cheap eBay stuff the whole MR2 IC market has slid down to a price point that doesn't appeal to any of the higher end vendors.

[kblake]

Thanks for sharing your observations Ricky. I've known for years that the SSAC/XS Power down pipes, manifolds and turbos were junk, but it seemed like the intercooler cores might actually perform fairly well, based on the test results that Berk posted.

Ken

[MR2SW22]

Originally Posted by Sang

Yeah I know. But what I'm just saying is that there aren't many, if any SMIC kits worth buying that can put up with the demands some the power goals some of these people are looking for (>350whp). The Apex-i/Phoenix Power setups were enticing and Kris recently tuned his 400+whp setup with no soak with one, but they are rare/discontinued/hard to come by used. And the TH kit is no longer available. The next best thing now is the Bill's version of the Spearco kit.

I'm just saying that if someone were serious with their power goals that a simple greddy/ebay core can't suffice. SMIC shouldn't be something the need to be looking for. And if they go to A2W, properly setting one up is quite a bit more complex than a supplemental injection (water and what have you).

+2 i got my ebay core and 9" puller fan and shroud, im totally happy, my goal is only at 300hp to the flywheel so that's why i went with this setup. if i go past 300whp i might look into meth injection, but even if i don't get higher into the 300's i might just do meth for the hell of it. I drove in a 98 tacoma 4x4 lifted sky high on 33"tires with a TRD supercharger running like a 9 or 10psi pulley with a few bolt ons and stock fuel system, but he was using a meth injection that kicked in at 5-6 psi, OMG. i almost pee'd myself, that taco could fly.

A2W IC's aren't as expensive as they use to be, some of our venders on here sell complete kits for real cheap, and you can always piece together your own setup. If i went A2W, i would get a 400-500whp size core, a large heat exhanger to mount in front of the radiator, run lines to the back of the car, and hook up a high flow water pump. it's my version of a front mount.

[RickyB]

Originally Posted by kblake

Thanks for sharing your observations Ricky. I've known for years that the SSAC/XS Power down pipes, manifolds and turbos were junk, but it seemed like the intercooler cores might actually perform fairly well, based on the test results that Berk posted.

The most important factor I look for in an IC core that is going to be used for higher power applications is its ability to keep rejecting heat over long periods of time. It's fine to do a couple of short pulls as a comparison, if all you want to measure is pressure drop at a given flow.

[mr2by4]

I would really like to see how these work in a "real world" situation.
Thermal probe hooked up during a 1/4 mile run, or maybe numbers after repeated hard pulls at highway speeds, or EVEN a probe datalogging during a 20 minute track session.
I am curious due to the fact that while dyno numbers are great for bragging rights, my performance goals do not include repeated stationary full throttle pulls. If that is your goal, you need to use the old garden hose and a total loss A2w set-up. I think many of use were wowed by some numbers produced with that set-up "back in the day".