3GENJDM: Gen3 Debate

[TreyMR2]

Originally Posted by Husler

You have to admit though if you spent 3500 on a gen3 clip and someone spent 1,500 on a gen2 engine harness and ecu and the remainder spend in mods and beats you in a q/m it would be lame.

My whole reason for going Gen3 was, whats gonna be better for me in the long run. The thing is, I can do way less work to the motor making it more reliable and still run a pretty quick 1/4mile. All I have is a boost controller, intercooler, intake, and a 3'' DP, and its plenty fast for me right now. From what I've seen on here it should be anywhere from 270-290ish WHP, depending on my motors condition compared to the people on here that have dyno'd theirs. IMO if your gonna leave the motor basically stock for a little while or are going from an N/A definitely go Gen3. If you already have a Gen2 turbo, I'd go JDM Gen2 or just mod the crap out of your existing motor. Thats just my out look on it though.

[Husler]

Originally Posted by TreyMR2

My whole reason for going Gen3 was, whats gonna be better for me in the long run. The thing is, I can do way less work to the motor making it more reliable and still run a pretty quick 1/4mile. All I have is a boost controller, intercooler, intake, and a 3'' DP, and its plenty fast for me right now. From what I've seen on here it should be anywhere from 270-290ish WHP, depending on my motors condition compared to the people on here that have dyno'd theirs. IMO if your gonna leave the motor basically stock for a little while or are going from an N/A definitely go Gen3. If you already have a Gen2 turbo, I'd go JDM Gen2 or just mod the crap out of your existing motor. Thats just my out look on it though.

That makes a whole lot of sense. I just hate to hear people beat down a gen2 motor that can make the same power. If you proceed about the project in a smart way. And i get all my stuff from japan. Contradicting what most board members think the JDM market has an abundance of parts for the gen3 motor.
Dont get me wrong i think the gen3's are great lets not just bash the gen2 which is quite capable.

[TreyMR2]

exactly, if you already have a gen2 its not a bad motor just you'll have to do a little more work from its stock form to reach the same power as a gen3. That doesn't mean more money though since Gen3 stuff is usually more expensive.

[Husler]

Originally Posted by TreyMR2

exactly, if you already have a gen2 its not a bad motor just you'll have to do a little more work from its stock form to reach the same power as a gen3. That doesn't mean more money though since Gen3 stuff is usually more expensive.

Finally after all this time on the ninth page we get some sense...

[sickof5sfe]

I agree...N/A to turbo-gen3 all the way...but those that swap in a gen3 over the gen2 they already have is nonsensicle and all they seem to prove is that they can do it...i dont see much of a benefit in that at all IMO...btw just outta curiosity how high can the stock internals of a gen3 be pushed before a rebuild is needed?

[Ncturnal]

Originally Posted by sickof5sfe

I agree...N/A to turbo-gen3 all the way...but those that swap in a gen3 over the gen2 they already have is nonsensicle and all they seem to prove is that they can do it...i dont see much of a benefit in that at all IMO...btw just outta curiosity how high can the stock internals of a gen3 be pushed before a rebuild is needed?

DavidV is running 400 HP on a stock bottom-end Gen 3 and has been well over the 300 mark for over 7 years, and it has seen many hours on the track during that time.

Put me in the category of going from Gen 2 to Gen 3 as well. When you figure the price of what I sold the Gen 2 for, then going to Gen 3 wasn't all that crazy. You'd easily spend the difference trying to ditch the AFM and buying a CT-20b, so even Gen 2 to Gen 3 isn't as crazy as you might think, if you are able to sell your Gen2. If you play your cards right, a parted out Gen 2 can pay for the Gen 3 in full.

[sickof5sfe]

ah that's good to know...my hp goals are around 350-400hp so i shouldnt have to worry about it too much

[Ncturnal]

Originally Posted by sickof5sfe

ah that's good to know...my hp goals are around 350-400hp so i shouldnt have to worry about it too much

One of the big keys to his outstanding reliability is proper tuning, so do bear that in mind. An improperly tuned Gen 3 (or any Gen) can pop at 250 HP.

[TreyMR2]

are yall saying 350-400WHP or crank HP?

[sickof5sfe]

wheel

[TreyMR2]

sweet my goal was around 350-400 too, then when I get tired of that I wanna just rebuild the whole thing for like 550 but thats a long way down the road.

[sickof5sfe]

yeah...i wanna keep the car streetable and have enough power to pull on street competion (ps im not a street racer)...and run good 1/4 mile times as well as time attack times

[boostd4]

Take it from people who have had both, and modded both...

Me
----
1) Stock gen2 with TD06
2) Built gen2 stroker with SB46 and GT28RS
3) Stock Gen3 with GT28RS

The gen3 is better in everyway except possibly peak power potential against the built stroker I had. It's just much smoother, no vacuum leak issues, rock solid idle no matter what, no bucky throttle transitions, EVER... etc..

John Santesson (sp?)
-----------------
1) Built stroker gen2 with SB50 (probably had others before that..)
2) Stock Gen3 with SB50

Has said several times that he prefers the driveability and response of the Gen3, even against his stroker..

Justin311
----------
Several built gen2's (? .. I know he had at LEAST one, and few stock ones)
Gen3 with TD06 on E85..

Justin has said he was definitely impressed with the gen3 and has pursued that engine ever since..

It may not be easy to put into words.. I tried, but it's not like we're a bunch of NA guys who have never had a turbo motor and have to justify our gen3 pricetag... ****... my built gen2 cost me $5500 just for the longblock... my entire gen3 rear halfcut was only $3500.

[Sang]

Originally Posted by boostd4

Justin311
----------
Several built gen2's (? .. I know he had at LEAST one, and few stock ones)
Gen3 with TD06 on E85..

Justin has said he was definitely impressed with the gen3 and has pursued that engine ever since..

He also said that he never would've got one had he not gotten it for free (or for the most part free, as part of a trade from someone that owed him money).

Would he honestly give up a gen2 to buy a stock gen3...?

[boostd4]

IMO, it's irrelevant how he got it, if in the end he was more impressed with it than the gen2...

[Ncturnal]

My first MR2 had a Gen 3 and I loved it. I've had many since (including a 470 HP Gen 2) and I'm going back with a Gen 3 in my silver MR2 to replace the Gen 2 that was in it. The Gen 3 is an impressive setup. It's too bad we never got them here.

[Sang]

Originally Posted by boostd4

IMO, it's irrelevant how he got it, if in the end he was more impressed with it than the gen2...

My point is, would he still get a gen3 if he still get a gen2...not HOW he got his gen3.

Being impressed might not be enough to convert a perfectly good, running gen2 for a gen3. I know it's not enough of a reason for me.

[mister3]

Originally Posted by Sang

My point is, would he still get a gen3 if he still get a gen2...not HOW he got his gen3.

Being impressed might not be enough to convert a perfectly good, running gen2 for a gen3. I know it's not enough of a reason for me.

could look at it this way:

if you have a gen2 powered MR2 and are looking for a cheaper way to get 300-400whp then swapping in a gen3 might be a viable option.

EBAY gen2 prices are around $2,000 shipped for a motorset (best for replacements and not swaps)

gen2 1991 full swap/clip $2250
gen2 93 w/LSD clip or full swap $2750
gen3 clip or full swap $3750

replacement JDM 3sgte $1400
CRW rebuilt longblocks start at $3200

if you already have a turbo car there are plenty of ways to offset the cost of the gen3 conversion:

sell: body wiring harness, axles, stubshafts, trans, longblock, turbo, engine wiring harness, sensors, ECU. those parts alone could bring the gen3 to a more attainable level and you'll still have all the benefits of the upgraded gen3 engine.

but at the end of that day if you're looking for 400+whp stick with the gen2 OR if the car is your ONLY mode of transportation and you need it running... gen3 parts can be harder to source and more time consuming + expensive to purchase. imagine waiting 3+ months if you can't find a MAP sensor.... or when the CT20b ceramic turbine wheel busts on you......... have seen these "ingested" and ruin the entire engine!

[boostd4]

Originally Posted by Sang

My point is, would he still get a gen3 if he still get a gen2...not HOW he got his gen3.

Being impressed might not be enough to convert a perfectly good, running gen2 for a gen3. I know it's not enough of a reason for me.

??? No one in this thread is talking about pulling a good running Gen2 in order to go Gen3... .we're talking about buying a swap.. it's assumed that you NEED the swap because you're either NA or blown up turbo... I only referenced Justin for his opinion of the two, not the circumstances around them.

[Sang]

Originally Posted by boostd4

??? No one in this thread is talking about pulling a good running Gen2 in order to go Gen3... .we're talking about buying a swap.. it's assumed that you NEED the swap because you're either NA or blown up turbo...

Nothing is assumed...

My take from reading this overly drawn out thread is swapping in a gen3...regardless of where you are coming from. NA, blown up gen2, or perfectly running gen2, et cetera.

And the last 2-3 pages specifically talks about going from gen2 to gen3.