3GENJDM: Gen3 Debate

[rhouck]

I agree with that from the sheer point that I see very little reason to EVER swap out a WORKING 3sgte motor of ANY generation

And to go with that, buying a WORKING Gen3 motor just to tear it apart seems silly as well.

However, I would still stand by the fact that the 3sgte is proven to make quite a bit of power on the stock bottom end and "building" it is not necessary for ALMOST all owners.

From that standpoint, the risks involved with building/rebuilding are usually NOT worth it to the average owner and they are better off buying a WORKING, LOW-mileage motor to swap in.

Once that is considered, the number of people who SHOULD be planning to do internals is rather low... and thus for everyone else a Gen3 WOULD be a better platform. When you actually break down what you are paying for in a clip, the cost difference is worth the improvement for a better bolt-on platform.

[rhouck]

I think the problem with the direction this discussion has gone, is an absence of ACTUAL numbers.

Outside of Nacho, no one has posted any ACTUAL dollar amounts for what things cost (not saying his numbers are the be-all/end-all however)

[MR2T32]

SW20 MR2 (2nd Gen) - Includes 3S-GTE Engine, 5-Speed LSD Transmission, and Fuel Pump $2,895
SW20 MR2 (3rd Gen) - Includes 3S-GTE Engine, 5-Speed LSD Transmission, and Fuel Pump $3,995

this is one reason why I don't suggest going gen2. The price difference is only a little bit less compared to the gen3, and the stock rating for gen2 is the same as gen1. Gen1 can be found for $1800 or less, and it is rated the same as gen2. I know Gen1 doesn't come with LSD, but the LSD tranny can be found for around 600 w/ axle. Anyways, my point here is that stock for stock you get more for the money with the Gen3 compared to the Gen2.

Making more power isn't for racing?

gotta agree with ken on this one. Even though I drag race here and there, I main purpose for more power was just for the fun of it.

I think the problem with the direction this discussion has gone, is an absence of ACTUAL numbers.

well, i had posted up the cost of my genI swap which was $2800 installed. If i would to swap the motor myself, it would have cost me $1600 for the rear clip.

my order of engine choice.
1. GenI
2. GenIII (have the money for it)
3. V6 Swap (have the money for it, and another car)

[nigel]

Originally Posted by MR2T32

3. V6 Swap (have the money for it, and another car)

why do you say you need another car if you do the v6 swap?

[MR2T32]

because the V6 swap will most likely take a while since it's not a direct bolt on like the 3SGTE. So having a beater to drive around would be a good idea since the 2 is my only car right now.

[nigel]

gotcha. I thought you were saying it is unreliable so you would want a car for when the v6 breaks down. I thought it would be more reliable then an built 3sgte. I am saving up for a v6 twin super swap in my mk1

[tigerpee]

besides the clip itself if it was Gen3, is there any other parts to purchase? also, are these parts available that partznet..etc.etc? cuz i would seriously hate to wait weeks for a part.

[Tyler H]

Originally Posted by tigerpee

besides the clip itself if it was Gen3, is there any other parts to purchase? also, are these parts available that partznet..etc.etc? cuz i would seriously hate to wait weeks for a part.

Any time you do a swap, you should budget enough to replace the ignition components and clutch. Timing belt, water pump and HFH are a good idea too. It will never be easier to get to those pieces than when the engine is out of the car. Most of the consumable gen3 stuff is commonly available or shared with the gen2. Internal parts are not commonly available, and you could have to wait weeks for replacements.

[MR2T32]

when you get a whole rear clip assumeing nothing is missing, you should not have to buy anything else for the GenIII swap. But like what Tyler H mentioned, it is always a good idea to replace the tear and wear parts while the engine is out. This goes for all engine swaps. It will save you money on labor later on down the road. If money is tight, I would suggest the following to be replaced at the very least. Hose From Hell (HFH), ignition components, and timing belt. All of these parts are not too expensive, and they can be found at most local dealerships.

[Tyler H]

Originally Posted by MR2T32

when you get a whole rear clip assumeing nothing is missing, you should not have to buy anything else for the GenIII swap. But like what Tyler H mentioned, it is always a good idea to replace the tear and wear parts while the engine is out. This goes for all engine swaps. It will save you money on labor later on down the road. If money is tight, I would suggest the following to be replaced at the very least. Hose From Hell (HFH), ignition components, and timing belt. All of these parts are not too expensive, and they can be found at most local dealerships.

I still say the clutch is a must......a lot of JDM clips BECOME clips because the clutch goes out. They drive in a lot of stop and go traffic over there, too. I've yet to see an imported engine with a clutch that was in really good condition. You can follow the BGB with a multimeter and test your wires, distributor and rotor and only replace them if they're bad. Spark plugs are cheap. The engine is non-interference, so you could even go so far as to check out the t-belt and make sure its in good shape, but a good clutch is a must in my book.

[blueprint]

I agree with everything MR2T32 has mentioned in his posts.

Except for this:

my order of engine choice.
1. GenI
2. GenIII (have the money for it)
3. V6 Swap (have the money for it, and another car)

Gen III > ALL

j/k

[nigel]

^^

yeah, I agree. If you have the money and another car, wouldnt the v6 be your first choice?

[MR.2000GT]

my gen3 can piss further than you gen2..... haha j/k.

having installed 4+ dozen of these things, and owning them all... id prefer a gen3 any day. however, i think there are instances where a gen2 would suite someone better depending on what they want to do with it.

like someone said, ct20b, no afm and fuel system are among the biggest reasons it is better, but the entire thing is refined, usually cleaner, lower miles, etc. Its Newer.

I should stop talking up the gen3s so much or no one will want to buy a gen2 from me and it will take me a year to fill a container of 18 with just gen3, lol. everyone wants to do something different though, and half the time, a gen2 is just a better suite for someone.

ah well, just thought id highlight some of those things and point out my gen3 has a bigger

[daver]

Originally Posted by rhouck

Once you get your Gen3 clip, you can sell of the ct20b (~$700-800) and 94 JDM (! lol) tails ($300-400). That gains you $1000-1200 back right there.

For people doing NA swaps I see ZERO reason to buy a JDM Gen2 over a Gen3.

In summary....

one should go Gen2 if:
1. They already have one
-AND-
2. They want big power

one should go Gen3 if:
1. They have NO motor / NA motor
-OR-
2. They have a blown motor and don't plan on building their motor internally

i went thru the same thought process while messing with honda swaps in the past. It looks like one thing that remains consistant is that prices inflate dramattically for the premier swaps over the slightly lesser ones (like the ITR swap over the gsr swap in honda land).

i've only recently started to research the mr2 "package" as i slowly tire of honda performance (affordable performance, that is), but is the extra 20 hp of the gen 3 really "worth it" over the g2 for a full grand? Does the g2 have serious issues that the g3 doesn't? It makes sense what rhouk said about buying the g3 and selling off parts to make up the $$ difference. But not if your swapping in from a non turbo mr2, kinda need the turbo at least.

I think it does come down to goals. I bought my gsr swap planning to be satisfied with its performance stock, because i knew i'd pay the difference if i tried to mod it to make it perform like an itr swap. Is that the case with these turbo engines? It seems to me that modding turbo cars can be very cheap.

What about the gen 1 turbo clip for a grand less than the g2 (so i read)? Missing the lsd and some refinement? Sure the g3 is the best package available, but who can say the g1 or g2 isn't good enough. Stock, or slightly modded.

It sounds to me like the g3 swap $ is inflated from a strict performance standpoint. Somebody correct me here.

d

[kblake]

Originally Posted by MR.2000GT

my gen3 can piss further than you gen2..... haha j/k.

Haha, no it can't:

[Alex]

i've only recently started to research the mr2 "package" as i slowly tire of honda performance (affordable performance, that is), but is the extra 20 hp of the gen 3 really "worth it" over the g2 for a full grand? Does the g2 have serious issues that the g3 doesn't? It makes sense what rhouk said about buying the g3 and selling off parts to make up the $$ difference. But not if your swapping in from a non turbo mr2, kinda need the turbo at least.

You're not paying for the extra 20 hp. You're paying for the better turbo, injectors, cams, and intake manifold. In other words after you start modding and crank up the boost you can make a LOT more power than on a gen2 (using stock turbo, intake mani etc.). The CT20B turbo alone is worth around $700. Basically if you plan to not go with a turbo bigger than the CT20B then a gen3 may be the best bet for you. But there are a lot of other factors involved that I think have all been covered here and at mr2oc.com

[daver]

Originally Posted by Alex

You're not paying for the extra 20 hp. You're paying for the better turbo, injectors, cams, and intake manifold. In other words after you start modding and crank up the boost you can make a LOT more power than on a gen2 (using stock turbo, intake mani etc.). The CT20B turbo alone is worth around $700. Basically if you plan to not go with a turbo bigger than the CT20B then a gen3 may be the best bet for you. But there are a lot of other factors involved that I think have all been covered here and at mr2oc.com

There's no question that the g3 in the better swap to get. Newer, more refined, better potential from simple mods. But for some people, 225hp is fully enough, for less than half the price. Goals have to be weighed, and one should determine at what level they are willing to be satisfied with, before they spent their money and end up disappointed with their choice.

d

[mister3]

Originally Posted by daver

There's no question that the g3 in the better swap to get. Newer, more refined, better potential from simple mods. But for some people, 225hp is fully enough, for less than half the price. Goals have to be weighed, and one should determine at what level they are willing to be satisfied with, before they spent their money and end up disappointed with their choice.

d

i just hate hearing how the gen3 blocks like to crack... or customers waiting for months for a specific gen3 part which is keeping their car from running or paying top $$ + for parts from the dealer or...........

yeah -- gen3 rocks

[MR.2000GT]

gen3 rocks!

haha. this thread is still going?

[Dennis]

OK, one correction on the gen III to gen II differences, boost limit/fuel cut on 94+ is 16psi not 12psi.

And for the stock versus stock form of gen II & gen III for drags, i must be an exception, as I ran 13.7 @ 99.3mph 14psi, that's faster than wut most 3rd gen in southern cali is running with the exception of blueprint and cory.