3GENJDM: Gen3 Debate

[Dennis]

Originally Posted by Nacho

SW20 MR2 (2nd Gen) - Includes 3S-GTE Engine, 5-Speed LSD Transmission, and Fuel Pump $2,895
SW20 MR2 (3rd Gen) - Includes 3S-GTE Engine, 5-Speed LSD Transmission, and Fuel Pump $3,995

Engine builds only cost 1.1k?

whoah, i should raise my engine prices then...

Gen II with LSD Clip is $2300.00
Gen III with LSD Clip is $3500.00

and with shipping to the lower 48 states, it'll only cost $425.00 to a commercial address, that still leaves you ~$250 extra. i think ima raise my prices to add ~250.00

just kidding guys.

[Nacho]

Originally Posted by Alex

You're not paying for the extra 20 hp. You're paying for the better turbo, injectors, cams, and intake manifold.

And LSD, and better synchros, and later crossmember, and revised gearing, and no AFM, and......

Hp ratings alone don't tell about the differences in the area under the curve, better powerband, and extra response the later motor gives.

[redvalkyrie]

Okay, what about parts and servicing a GEN III? I'm sure you can get parts eventually from Japan through online dealers but what about diagnosing a problem? I can go to my BGB and know what to look for when troubleshooting a GEN I or II (I and II share just about every part, right?) but there are no English BGBs available for the GEN III.

[redvalkyrie]

Bump for my questions.

Thanks
JP

[Tyler H]

Originally Posted by redvalkyrie

Okay, what about parts and servicing a GEN III? I'm sure you can get parts eventually from Japan through online dealers but what about diagnosing a problem? I can go to my BGB and know what to look for when troubleshooting a GEN I or II (I and II share just about every part, right?) but there are no English BGBs available for the GEN III.

There is a wide range of support options on Gen3. Most of the CEL codes are the same. Most of the basic troubleshooting is the same. Jeff Watson at Champion Toyota in TX can get Gen3 parts for great prices and has most common stuff on hand.

Parts and troubleshooting is not a concern for me. 95% of my USDM BGB is still applicable.

[redvalkyrie]

There is a wide range of support options on Gen3. Most of the CEL codes are the same. Most of the basic troubleshooting is the same. Jeff Watson at Champion Toyota in TX can get Gen3 parts for great prices and has most common stuff on hand.

Thank you for your reply. Is this the general consensus among everyone? No worries on parts or troubleshooting?

This is my main concern as I do all of my own work. In Oklahoma there is NO one that could provide any type of support for a GEN III if a problem did arise.

My goal is only 280bhp (I guess about 240rwhp?) but I want it to be an extremely reliable and easy to maintain 280bhp. It seems that a GEN III would be the easiest and cheapest way to this goal.

Thanks
JP

[Tyler H]

I think Gen3 is far and away the best option, given your power goals. I haven't had mine dyno'd yet, but there are a lot of folks that don't believe me when I tell them it only has 245ps. (I.e. Mustang Cobra and Pontiac GTO drivers.)

The only parts concern is if you need something that isn't in stock. It could take 3-4 weeks to get. Most of the stuff that isn't available is engine internal and other major stuff that is going to leave you stranded. Mine isn't a daily driver and I don't have an active race campaign, so this is no concern for me.

If you are handy and do all of your own work, you'll have no problems. There are a lot of resources for tech info, the BGB is still good for everything but the drivetrain and ECM, and there are wiring diagrams available for those online.

No worries. Get a good clip and you wont be disappointed. Champion generally stocks tune-up parts, t-belts, t-stats, etc. Most of the routine stuff you'll need unless you're f'd in the a anyway.

[canadam]

Why do people argue about the GenIII Vs. whatever all day long, but noone ever mentions the GenIV 3S-GTE ?

[rhouck]

much more difficult swap (in terms of wiring)?

[redvalkyrie]

Why do people argue about the GenIII Vs. whatever all day long, but noone ever mentions the GenIV 3S-GTE

I've only seen one GEN IV swap and I don't see any being imported...maybe a lack of resources is the reason no one mentions the GEN IV?

I think Gen3 is far and away the best option, given your power goals. I haven't had mine dyno'd yet, but there are a lot of folks that don't believe me when I tell them it only has 245ps. (I.e. Mustang Cobra and Pontiac GTO drivers.)

The only parts concern is if you need something that isn't in stock. It could take 3-4 weeks to get. Most of the stuff that isn't available is engine internal and other major stuff that is going to leave you stranded. Mine isn't a daily driver and I don't have an active race campaign, so this is no concern for me.

If you are handy and do all of your own work, you'll have no problems. There are a lot of resources for tech info, the BGB is still good for everything but the drivetrain and ECM, and there are wiring diagrams available for those online.

No worries. Get a good clip and you wont be disappointed. Champion generally stocks tune-up parts, t-belts, t-stats, etc. Most of the routine stuff you'll need unless you're f'd in the a anyway.

Thanks. It sounds like we use our cars in similar manners. My SW20 gets driven less than 3000 miles a year because I have a daily driver and I really don't want to autocross it anymore. I have the daily driver AW11 for that. My SW20 is really only for my enjoyment and is a long term project.

I guess it's a GEN III for me.

[tigerpee]

i personally would go for Gen2 since there more parts readily available. However, if this is my weekend car, I'd go with Gen3.

[twoseatterror]

Originally Posted by GReddySetGO

I used to have a USDM turbo motor, and have since gotten a Gen3. I must say it was worth every penny, and if I had to do it all over again, I would go Gen3 first.

Ditto.

You can beat it to death, but there really isn't a need for a more powerful setup then a BPU'd Gen 3 swap, unless you are looking to go over the edge.

[twoseatterror]

Originally Posted by tigerpee

i personally would go for Gen2 since there more parts readily available. However, if this is my weekend car, I'd go with Gen3.

Mine has been a daily driver for almost 2 years now. There are several parts similarities between the 93 USDM and Gen 3 JDM motors. The only major parts differences when it comes to maintenance are the intake, exhaust, and valve cover gaskets. These parts can be ordered through Champion Toyota. Unfortunetly there is an 8 week turn around, but how often do you need THOSE gaskets?

[Nacho]

Originally Posted by twoseatterror

Mine has been a daily driver for almost 2 years now. There are several parts similarities between the 93 USDM and Gen 3 JDM motors. The only major parts differences when it comes to maintenance are the intake, exhaust, and valve cover gaskets. These parts can be ordered through Champion Toyota. Unfortunetly there is an 8 week turn around, but how often do you need THOSE gaskets?

Whats up man?

I met you at Dave's batchelor party, and have since gone on to the gen 3 side of MR2-land, as per you two's reccomendations.

As for the gaskets, i have most of a complete head gasket set on hand at any time 'just in case'. Even U Sspec 3SGTE/MR2 parts from toyota don't have the best turnaround time.

[Nacho]

Originally Posted by redvalkyrie

My goal is only 280bhp (I guess about 240rwhp?) but I want it to be an extremely reliable and easy to maintain 280bhp. It seems that a GEN III would be the easiest and cheapest way to this goal.

Thanks
JP

I got 253 rwhp on my gen 3 swap w/ simply a K&N on a stick, greddy sidemount IC, and autolab downpipe and exhaust. Stock boost.

[Ncturnal]

I think ChrisK at Engine Logics still has a new & complete Gen 3 gasket kit I sold him a while back.

[Nacho]

Originally Posted by Ncturnal

I think ChrisK at Engine Logics still has a new & complete Gen 3 gasket kit I sold him a while back.

I reccomend that someone get a hold of him and pick it up if he's selling it.

The ceramic turbine in the turbo and the gasket differences were the biggest concerns for me w/ the gen 3. So far neither has been an issue, but it's best to be safe than sorry. And waiting months for a part to come in to finish an otherwise decent turnaround repair is killer

[TurboMan]

Checking out the debate here for the 3sgte I would go gen III. If you ask why here's a few reasons it looks better, much more simplified especially when working around bulky components like the huge afm and the twin intake ports vs the single on the genIII. It's nearly a stock fit anyways with around 20% increase in power over the US/CDN models and if your putting it in yourself you'll know it's a pain to do all the work by yourself may as well spend the extra cash and enjoy the extra ponies. After you can enjoy the fruits of your labour and try modding it even more. I bought so much stuff like the Greddy stainless exhaust, big brakes new tires 245/35/17 for the front Toyo T1S' around $3000.00 in extra's that I haven't put on yet this summer like I wanted to. So whatever you do make sure it's gonna make a difference cause other wise it's pointless. Gen II waste of time stick with the US version and slap on a Gen III turbo that's 90% of the difference anyways.

The V6 is gutless 3.0L camry, avalon, es300. The 3.4L is junk wouldn't waste my time can't be bothered with all the extra wires for the same power as a gen 3. Wait till you do the exhaust manifolds ohhhh yeah here we go.

If you insist however on having a MR2 V6 get the 2GR-FSE 3.5L V6 Lexus IS350 engine it makes 306HP and 277lb/ft torque. By the way you need to get a camry transmission cause the lexus is rwd.

[analogvoid]

This thread has been a very informative read for me. I'm planning on purchasing a 90's N/A MR2 and dropping a turbo motor into it. It was a choice between the GEN2 and GEN3. I was looking to see what would be the best value/results for a daily driven MR2 with around 300rwhp. It seems that the GEN3 is easier to make streetable with those numbers, while also being newer, etc. I feel it is worth the extra money for what my goals are. I think, though, if I was shooting for a car for the dragstrip, putting down some serious power with seom serious engine work I would go with the GEN2.

[kblake]

Originally Posted by analogvoid

This thread has been a very informative read for me. I feel it is worth the extra money for what my goals are. I think, though, if I was shooting for a car for the dragstrip, putting down some serious power with seom serious engine work I would go with the GEN2.

Excellent. That is exactly my advice to everyone who asks me which one they should get.

Ken