3GENJDM: Gen3 Debate

[Martin]

i'm a huge fan of the gen3. Love everything about it. I even think it looks way better than a gen2 motor.


Martin

[PETC]

You fanboi Martin.

Is your car done man?

[Martin]

Originally Posted by PETC

You fanboi Martin.

Is your car done man?

lol, it's been done since may 05.



I'm the Martin from Toronto Canada, u may be thinking of the Martin from Washington, with the gen3 swap in progress.

Martin

[PETC]

You crazy Martins and your MK1.5 Gen 3 swaps.

[Martin]

crazy we are....

[driftartist]

what is a gen 3? im sorry im so new to this. i havea 1993 turbo and im thinking that is a us gen 2? i thought the gen 3 was the MRS spyder? or is there a gen 3 3sgte? im confused...

[3sgtepower]

Christ, how can you even own a 3sgte and not know it had updated versions of it, much like any other motor like the 5.0's in mustangs changing to fuel injection, or LT1 to LS1 Camaro's.

Did you even know they continued to make the MR2 after they quit importing them after 1995, much like most other Japanese sports cars?

The gen 3 was a major upgrade over the gen 2, theres a video on here of a stock JDM gen 2 mr2 running 14.2 and a stock JDM gen 3 mr2 running a 13.3 in 400m (8ft shy of a quartermile). They didnt sell them to America in 1994, probably because it couldnt pass certain states strict emissions testing, plus the car was getting discontinued from unfavorable exchange rates as an import, and they would have to retune or lower its timing to allow for the American states taht only sell 91 (ugh!) octane fuel.
Although I will admit that when I took my gen 3 motor to the emissions place with a catyltic converter on it, I got less than 1/3 of the emissions requirements on 2 of the tests, and half the limit on another requirement, mine had an easier time passing emissions than my USDM gen 2 did which came very close to failing (but that was a 140k motor, and my gen 3 prolly around 50k)

The next generation of MR2 is referred to as the MKIII MR2 to help clarify that there talking about the MKIII MR2 and not the 3rd gen 3sgte.

[PETC]

Dude.... calm down... lol

[mister3]

Originally Posted by 3sgtepower

Christ, how can you even own a 3sgte and not know it had updated versions of it, much like any other motor like the 5.0's in mustangs changing to fuel injection, or LT1 to LS1 Camaro's.

Did you even know they continued to make the MR2 after they quit importing them after 1995, much like most other Japanese sports cars?

The gen 3 was a major upgrade over the gen 2, theres a video on here of a stock JDM gen 2 mr2 running 14.2 and a stock JDM gen 3 mr2 running a 13.3 in 400m (8ft shy of a quartermile). They didnt sell them to America in 1994, probably because it couldnt pass certain states strict emissions testing, plus the car was getting discontinued from unfavorable exchange rates as an import, and they would have to retune or lower its timing to allow for the American states taht only sell 91 (ugh!) octane fuel.
Although I will admit that when I took my gen 3 motor to the emissions place with a catyltic converter on it, I got less than 1/3 of the emissions requirements on 2 of the tests, and half the limit on another requirement, mine had an easier time passing emissions than my USDM gen 2 did which came very close to failing (but that was a 140k motor, and my gen 3 prolly around 50k)

The next generation of MR2 is referred to as the MKIII MR2 to help clarify that there talking about the MKIII MR2 and not the 3rd gen 3sgte.

gen3 is still OBD0 where as cars sold 96 or newer had to be OBDII compliant.... that's most of the reason behing them discontinuing them.... along with sales, prices, exchange rates, etc.

[driftartist]

dont bag on me cause im not familiar with your terminology inthe first few days of joining the forum and also just purchasing a "mk2" a week and a half ago. im here to learn hence my question. not the most familia with the mr2 timelin ok jackass? sorry...shit

[kblake]

Originally Posted by driftartist

dont bag on me cause im not familiar with your terminology inthe first few days of joining the forum and also just purchasing a "mk2" a week and a half ago. im here to learn hence my question. not the most familia with the mr2 timelin ok jackass? sorry...shit

Don't worry about him. Look at his avatar for God's sake!

[driftartist]

true...ill keep it cool from now on. my bad

[T@ZM@N!@C]

http://www.toysport.com/webpages/New...o/FYI3SGTE.htm
Can any one can clarify this information from Toysport

[kblake]

Originally Posted by T@ZM@N!@C

http://www.toysport.com/webpages/New...o/FYI3SGTE.htm
Can any one can clarify this information from Toysport

They're right. The turbo exists, but we are the only ones who refer to it as a CT20b. We collectively agreed some time ago to always refer to it as a CT20b, just to cut down on confusion.

"That which we call a rose, by any other name, would smell as sweet"

[PETC]

What made us come to that name? And what is it technicly?

[T@ZM@N!@C]

What is the big difference between those turbo ct20b & ct26? is the ct26 of 7mgte and the ct26 0f 2nd gen 3sgte is the same in diameter, turbine, bolt-in etc..

[kblake]

Originally Posted by PETC

What made us come to that name? And what is it technicly?

I think some well meaning enthusiast had mis-indentified it. There IS a CT20 turbo on another Toyota, but it's a completely different turbo. Toyota doesn't have an official designation for it, so we adopted the one that was in common usage at the time. AFAIK, Toyota still considers it to be a CT26, albeit an updated one.

Originally Posted by T@ZM@N!@C

What is the big difference between those turbo ct20b & ct26? is the ct26 of 7mgte and the ct26 0f 2nd gen 3sgte is the same in diameter, turbine, bolt-in etc..

The "20b" has a slightly larger compressor wheel, and better flowing exhaust side. It also has a very thin shaft connecting the two, with tiny bearings, and a ceramic turbine. Those "features" make it very fragile, at least compared to the CT26.

The 7MGTE CT26 will bolt up to our exhaust manifold, but will not fit the down pipe. You would have to have a custom down pipe made. The turbo is single entry instead of twin entry, and has a slightly larger compressor wheel, with a better flowing turbine than the MR2 CT26.

HTH, Ken

[PETC]

I've never heard of anyone having problems with the CT20B beng too fragile...

[kblake]

Originally Posted by PETC

I've never heard of anyone having problems with the CT20B beng too fragile...

Well, then you haven't been around long enough. There are plenty of threads on the other board about the ceramic turbine disintegrating, particularly when high boost was being run.

ATS used to rebuild 20bs, but it was hard to get parts, and there were too many of them breaking, so Aaron came up with the CT27. Since it's based on the more durable CT26, it doesn't have the inherent weaknesses of the 20b.

Toyota has a long history of putting ceramic turbines on their JDM models, which never see 50K miles before the cars are in a junkyard, and steel turbines on the U.S. models, which are expected to go hundreds of thousands of miles without major problems.

Ken

[PETC]

It's a very largely propagated myth that Japanese people have to get rid of their cars at or before 50K miles. It's simply not true.

And I'm not saying what you're saying isn't true, but I've been around for nearly four years now, and I've never heard once of a CT20B going out in a way that was any more abnormal than the CT26s go out. I think if it was a common problem it'd be talked about more frequently.

Perhaps it can happen just like rodknock can happen if you don't take care of your turbo? I'm interested in the fact that you brought this up because I have a Gen 3, and would like to know about any weaknesses the CT20B has. What do you consider high boost, and if the weakness is in the turbo, does it have anything to do with improper cooldown or possibly oiling issues? I imagine those combined with a lighter internal ceramic structure might lead to premature failure.