3SGTE: ssautochrome t3/t4 any good?

[eckoman_pdx]

Originally Posted by ixtlann

Is that leather wrapped interior pieces in your siggy i see?

Yup, it's NovaSuede wrapped Interior pieces (high end stuff, not that $30 a yard crap). I used to do custom upholstery work for a well known shop here in Portland. One day when I was board @ home I went to town on it

[ixtlann]

Originally Posted by eckoman_pdx

Yup, it's NovaSuede wrapped Interior pieces (high end stuff, not that $30 a yard crap). I used to do custom upholstery work for a well known shop here in Portland. One day when I was board @ home I went to town on it

Well its freaking awesome imo!

[eckoman_pdx]

Originally Posted by ixtlann

Well its freaking awesome imo!

Thanks I appreciate the compliment. I plan to finish off the rest of the interior in NovaSuede eventually. What's done to it now is nothing compared to what I did to the interior of my other car.

[Adrians89MR2SC]

ok .. time to blow the dust off this thread

got about 100 miles untill I hit the 10,000 mile mark (should be there by monday)

this morning I drove the car and it seemed as if it was taking the turbo forever to spool up and it was only boosting to maybe 8psi later in the rpm range

popped the hood and somehow the boost controller screw backed its way out .. yet the locking nut was tight (the screw didnt have any pressure on the spring inside)

anyways .. long story short .. tightened it up (maybe a little more than I should) then took it out and .. have no clue what psi it spiked at

but 1st gear .. maybe a couple psi spool (on the gauge), then second gear .. BOOOM that needle slammed 10psi so damn fast and pegged me in the seat I dont know what the hell happened

but it was awsome pulled like crazy, then let off as soon as it hit just to be safe .. didnt mean to turn it up that much

anyways, my friend is giving me a good boost gauge that goes way up to 100 I think .. some stupid amount (he put it on his n/a jetta but is selling the car)

so I'll have some idea soon what I'm running .. I might start running around 14 once I get the gauge

allready unhooked the boost sensor b/c fuel cut kept coming on (plus I got tired of re setting my radio after unhooking the battery)

how about anyone else running the ssac t3/t4 turbo .. any problems yet?

[Spyderdan]

I would keep that boost sensor hooked up for now it could save your engine!
Please hook it back up until you at least get a boost gauge and better yet a A/F gauge.

A better boost gauge would be one that shows vacuum in case of a boost leak ect.. and up to 30 psi. If you get a gauge that reads 100psi its going to be hard to tell if your running 12 or 16 psi on the needle.

You don't have to unhook the battery after you hit fuel cut just shut the key off and back on that's it. You can even shut the key off and back on in gear while you're driving it will clear the boost cut instantly and the check engine light.

Right now you could be running 16-18 psi with that turbo who knows but its not worth a couple seconds of fun if you end up with a trashed engine.

[Spyderdan]

I am curious what RPM your hitting full boost, any guess?
I'm contemplating putting one of these kits on my gen2 after I add the gen3 electronics.

The only gauges I have in my MR2 are A/F and boost both are the white face "faze" brand gauges they sell at autozone. Both work great and after driving the car around for a while you get an idea of the normal operating range your car shows on the gauges.
For example I know when my car has a vacuum or boost least leak when the gauge shows a number less than -20 vacuum at idle. Also after boosting my car for the last couple years I'll notice that the rich/lean gauge will normally peg full rich at any amount of boost and cycle back in forth showing the car is in the proper range while cruising.

There was one day (couple times) when my boost controller malfunctioned I didn't notice the boost gauge was reading 23psi (duh) but the normal bright blue rich indicator lights on my A/F gauge started to slowly disappear and green lights in the middle of the gauge were lighting up indicating to me exactly what the O2 sensor was seeing in the exhaust which was a leaner mixture needless to say I immediately lifted my right foot before catastrophe struck and tracked down the boost issue and was on my way.

There have been countless times those two cheap gauges have saved my butt and along the way helped me under stand what the car was doing under various driving conditions.

[kblake]

Originally Posted by Spyderdan

I didn't notice the boost gauge was reading 23psi (duh) but the normal bright blue rich indicator lights on my A/F gauge started to slowly disappear and green lights in the middle of the gauge were lighting up indicating to me exactly what the O2 sensor was seeing in the exhaust which was a leaner mixture needless to say I immediately lifted my right foot before catastrophe struck and tracked down the boost issue and was on my way.

There have been countless times those two cheap gauges have saved my butt and along the way helped me under stand what the car was doing under various driving conditions.

O2 sensors are 0-5 volt sensors. The stock narrowband one goes from 0-5 volts in a range that is approximately 14.2:1 to 15.0:1. A wideband's range is from 9.65:1 to 20:1.

The stock O2 sensor/AFR gauge can only tell you two things: Leaner than 15:1 and richer than 14.2:1. That is why it's called a narrowband sensor. Within that range, it is VERY sensistive, however anything leaner than 12:1 under boost is bad news. Even at the richest AFR that gauge can read, you are about 2.5 points too lean.

The ONLY thing that gauge can tell you is that your stock O2 sensor works, and when the engine is in closed loop.

Here's some useful reading:

Western MotorsportS Wideband O2 System | Technical Information

Ken

[Spyderdan]

I'm not saying that someone can tune with their narrow band sensor my point is it can be a helpful diagnostic tool.

A narrow band gauge doesn't hold a candle to a wide band but it does give useful feedback that most folks won't have otherwise.
My point is somethings better than nothing when your not putting your car on a real dyno or have a wide band.

There's a guy down the street with a 240 that has both a narrow band autometer gauge and a uego wide band gauge on his car and when the wide band reads low so does the narrow band and vice verse. When he starts to lean out towards 11.9 up it starts to show on the narrow band. These two gauges are connected to separate sensors. I know the narrow band sensors are only made to give accurate readings in a very narrow range but I've observed that there is still some useful feedback despite its limited capability. Obviously the wide band is giving a real number when the other is a very rough gauge of A/F.

Air fuel ratio meter gauge

I need to get off the stupid computer and get some fresh air!

[kblake]

Originally Posted by Spyderdan

I'm not saying that someone can tune with their narrow band sensor my point is it can be a helpful diagnostic tool.

My point is that it CANNOT be a useful diagnostic tool, unless you are using it to determine if your stock O2 sensor is working or not, or if your engine is getting into closed loop. Those are the ONLY things it can tell you.

You CANNOT use it to tell when you are going lean. All it can tell you is when you are leaner than 15.0:1. By that point you will have already popped a piston.

Conversely, you could be at 13:1 AFRs, and the stupid Autometer AFR gauge would still be reading full rich. 13:1 is easily lean enough to bring on detonation and crack ring lands.

[Spyderdan]

Read my link Bro!

You win you right I don't know what I 'm talking about mod please delete my posts.

[kblake]

Originally Posted by Spyderdan

Read my link Bro!

You win you right I don't know what I 'm talking about mod please delete my posts.

I read your link, there's nothing there that refutes any of the facts I've stated.

Did you read MY link?

[Adrians89MR2SC]

full boost?

depends how hard you stomp on the gas ..

if your slowly getting into it .. you can rev out first gear slowly to redline with maybe 2-3 psi .. but as soon as you shift you hit full boost extremely fast

if you get on it hard .. full boost is before 4000 rpm .. I'm not exactly sure though, I'll look at it tommorow to see how quick is it spooling right now

I'm taking a CDL class at college during night / weekends .. and finishing my camaro during the day .. so I drive there every day

as for the boost sensor .. I'm gonna leave it undone .. I tried switching the key

that doesnt work .. along with switching the engine off and unhooking the sensor .. still cuts fuel if you rev it to high or get on it hard

so just reset the computer and kept the boost sensor vac line plugged .. has worked fine for me

I only get on it every now and then hard enough to go off my 10 psi guage (also has vacuum on it) .. during every day driving I shift as soon as it hits 10psi which is plenty fast enough for traffic

[eckoman_pdx]

Originally Posted by kblake

My point is that it CANNOT be a useful diagnostic tool, unless you are using it to determine if your stock O2 sensor is working or not, or if your engine is getting into closed loop. Those are the ONLY things it can tell you.

You CANNOT use it to tell when you are going lean. All it can tell you is when you are leaner than 15.0:1. By that point you will have already popped a piston.

Conversely, you could be at 13:1 AFRs, and the stupid Autometer AFR gauge would still be reading full rich. 13:1 is easily lean enough to bring on detonation and crack ring lands.

Ken, thanks for being a voice of reason in here still!!

[Spyderdan]

Originally Posted by kblake

My point is that it CANNOT be a useful diagnostic tool, unless you are using it to determine if your stock O2 sensor is working or not, or if your engine is getting into closed loop. Those are the ONLY things it can tell you.

You CANNOT use it to tell when you are going lean. All it can tell you is when you are leaner than 15.0:1. By that point you will have already popped a piston.

Conversely, you could be at 13:1 AFRs, and the stupid Autometer AFR gauge would still be reading full rich. 13:1 is easily lean enough to bring on detonation and crack ring lands.

You obviously didn't read my link because the page makes it abundantly clear that a narrowband sensor is not only very useful but many companies with a long history in motorsports have made gauges to monitor narrowband sensors:
Air fuel ratio meter gauge

I guess companies like J&S,K&N and Edelbrock that make these gauges need to fire their engineers and hire you as a consultant because they've wasted a bunch of time and effort by making worthless products.

Have you actually seen a real world comparison between wideband and narrowband sensors on the same car? I have and if you read my post above you would have read were I posted my account of the narrow band gauge starting to transition from full blue (rich) when the wideband started registering A/F ratios higher than 11.9. My real world experience is exactly what you would expect if you had one of the narrowband gauges that are shown at the bottom of the page I linked to.

*Just to everyone on this site that thinks narrowbands are useless. You do realize they have really only been available to the public(at a normal price) for 10 years or so, and before that us backyard tuner type guys had to rely on narrowbands and EGT probes to do our tuning. Plus reading your a/f ratio really isnt the best way to tune anyway. EGT probes show much more important data when pushing your car to the limits.

Tech Page

[Bak@EMSPowered]

so... why is this thread about a crap ebay turbo still going on 42 pages? I see no proof, no dynos, no evidence, no boost vs rpm graphs, no datalogs, nothing that is useful in this thread other than random babbling by various people that think what they're doing is valid to show a piece of crap turbo is any good. I'm sorry to be blunt here guys. But the ebay garbage is not an "upgrade" from a stock turbo. When will you realize that and step off the "hey yo look at me and my t3/t4 super duper big bad turbo" soap box? I'm willing to put money, parts, service time, or whatever you see fit on the line saying that you cant show one bit of proof that the crappy china made t3/t4 turbos all over ebay aren't worth the shipping cost to get them to you. I want to see one single bit of datalogging or dyno charts to prove me wrong. But as in the past years when kids have come and gone, and come and gone and come and gone with the same big hopes with their crappy china made turbos, nobody will ever have anything to show, other than big talk.

rant over.

[_Jim_]

I would be careful Adrian as I said before. You will start to run your car lean at around 12 psi. Just a heads for you. And you asked for an update from other members running the Ebay turbo, so I thought I might as well. My GF's car has been running strong at 17 psi for quite some time now, I will have to look back in the post on 6GC.net when we first turned the boost up to 17 psi and made 285whp on her 5sfe. But she has been running that turbo for about 2 years now and has not hand ANY problems with it.

And backstash, I don't know why you say the Ebay t3 is not an "upgrade" over the CT26/CT20B/CT27. I posted a dyno of my GF's car and she made over 50whp at the same boost level (and same mods) over the CT27. So as for NO increase in performance, you are wrong. But if you are saying the Ebay turbo is not an "upgrade" meaning "its junk/waste of money/blah blah blah" well then that is the reason this thread is 42 pages long. So its been said, we covered that, keep it to your self (not saying it disrespectfully, just tired of hearing it for 42 pages)

[_Jim_]

For those that "have not seen hard evidence" that the Ebay turbo does in fact make more power over the CT26/CT20B/CT27 here is are 2 dyno plots over layed. 2 cars, same boost pressure, same exact mods, different turbos.

CT27 is the BLUE run
EBAY T3 is the red run.



supershannon77's new 5SFTE powered celica - 6G Celicas Forums

Originally Posted by baktasht

so... why is this thread about a crap ebay turbo still going on 42 pages? I see no proof, no dynos, no evidence, no boost vs rpm graphs, no datalogs, nothing that is useful in this thread other than random babbling by various people that think what they're doing is valid to show a piece of crap turbo is any good. I'm sorry to be blunt here guys. But the ebay garbage is not an "upgrade" from a stock turbo. When will you realize that and step off the "hey yo look at me and my t3/t4 super duper big bad turbo" soap box? I'm willing to put money, parts, service time, or whatever you see fit on the line saying that you cant show one bit of proof that the crappy china made t3/t4 turbos all over ebay aren't worth the shipping cost to get them to you. I want to see one single bit of datalogging or dyno charts to prove me wrong. But as in the past years when kids have come and gone, and come and gone and come and gone with the same big hopes with their crappy china made turbos, nobody will ever have anything to show, other than big talk.

rant over.

Ok Backtasht, how does this work......Do I get to choose what I want?

[Sang]

^ That is the one of worst comparison graphs you could post to rebuttal with. What you failed to disclose in that graph is that Manny's ct27 pull was at 13psi, and the Ebay turbo was at 16.7psi.

Given that Manny pulled ~195whp at 9psi, 10whp/1psi generalization gives a observation that he'd make ~235whp at 13psi (which he did exactly that). Continuing this generalization that 10whp=1psi (and it should since the ct27 is still efficient at these power levels), he'd be around ~270whp at 16.5psi which is only 15whp less than the ebay turbo at 16.7psi and i'd expect they'd be very similar on torque. The reason why the ebay turbo doesn't fall off in the topend as much is because it peaks nearly 1.3K rpms later...Manny's graph reaches it's plateau at nearly 3.3K rpms and levels off, gaining maybe 10 ft/lbs over the next 1K rpms before it starts to fall off. Whereas the ebay turbo peaks at 4.7K rpms and immediately starts to drop. If you find where the ebay turbo hits the SAME torque as manny, that's at about 4.1K...so it's spooling nearly 800 rpms later for what...15whp and less AUC?

So really...that graph doesn't prove anything in your favor.

M $.02

[kblake]

Originally Posted by _Jim_

For those that "have not seen hard evidence" that the Ebay turbo does in fact make more power over the CT26/CT20B/CT27 here is are 2 dyno plots over layed. 2 cars, same boost pressure, same exact mods, different turbos.

Aaron has made as much as 350RWHP recently with the CT27 on a 3SGTE.

Taken from the thread you linked:

Originally Posted by 6strings

btw, the ebay turbo may have been working so far, but if/when it does fail, it could cause catastrophic damage. I finally figured out why my 5sfe blew not too long ago. I knew that the motor had metal in it that had chewed up the pistons and cylinder walls, but I didn't know where that metal had come from until I took my turbo/manifold/downpipe assembly apart and realized that the exhaust turbine for my turbo was missing altogether, and then I realized it was all in my engine...

There you have it folks, an eBay turbo kit causing a catastrophic engine failure on a Toyota Celica.

Ken

[PETC]

HOLD ON EVERYONE!!!

Are you trying to tell me that Chinese built crap turbos AREN'T a good investment???? WTF????