3SGTE: ssautochrome t3/t4 any good?

[Bak@EMSPowered]

Originally Posted by _Jim_

I would be careful Adrian as I said before. You will start to run your car lean at around 12 psi. Just a heads for you. And you asked for an update from other members running the Ebay turbo, so I thought I might as well. My GF's car has been running strong at 17 psi for quite some time now, I will have to look back in the post on 6GC.net when we first turned the boost up to 17 psi and made 285whp on her 5sfe. But she has been running that turbo for about 2 years now and has not hand ANY problems with it.

And backstash, I don't know why you say the Ebay t3 is not an "upgrade" over the CT26/CT20B/CT27. I posted a dyno of my GF's car and she made over 50whp at the same boost level (and same mods) over the CT27. So as for NO increase in performance, you are wrong. But if you are saying the Ebay turbo is not an "upgrade" meaning "its junk/waste of money/blah blah blah" well then that is the reason this thread is 42 pages long. So its been said, we covered that, keep it to your self (not saying it disrespectfully, just tired of hearing it for 42 pages)

* less area under the entire power curve
* lack of good throttle response
* lack long term reliability

All reasons why the cheap chinese made ebay turbos are not an upgrade over a stock turbo. THe CT26 on its own can make up to around 220-250rwhp, the CT20b can make up to around 310-330rwhp , and the CT27 as pointed out above, has made up to around 350rwp. All of these turbos are OEM and are a rock solid build. They are built to last 150k-200k miles. They have absolutely amazing throttle response and very quick spool. They can also be had for the same or less than the price of an ebay crap turbo kit, especially when you add all the cost of time/parts/labor needed to actually make those crap chinese turbo kits fit and work properly. It's not rocket science guys. Sure, you can ignore certain facts and look at one piece of flawed evidence and pretend like you made the right choice by purchasing polished poop. But at the end of the day, you were better off with an OEM replacement.

[Bak@EMSPowered]

Originally Posted by _Jim_

Ok Backtasht, how does this work......Do I get to choose what I want?

Originally Posted by Sang

^ That is the one of worst comparison graphs you could post to rebuttal with. What you failed to disclose in that graph is that Manny's ct27 pull was at 13psi, and the Ebay turbo was at 16.7psi.

Jim,
Yes, I'll hold up my end of the bargain as soon as shows solid proof. Like Sang pointed out, that one just doesn't quite show the truth.

[nutty1]

i wish my car was running already so i can post dyno results on my ssautochrome turbo too....

[_Jim_]

Originally Posted by baktasht

Jim,
Yes, I'll hold up my end of the bargain as soon as shows solid proof. Like Sang pointed out, that one just doesn't quite show the truth.

Hahaha, its funny, because I expected to hear more area under the curve.....faster spool....blahh blahh blahh. Well it is a larger turbo! It will naturally spool later than the Peashooter CT based turbos. But now you guys are just digging for $hit to complain about. Here is the thing. If you build these kits right, you will indeed save a ton of money and have a long lasting kit. My GF is going on 2 yeras now. And the CT based turbos arent bullet proff either, I have pictures of a ct26 that I snapped the exhaust wheel off. So thats not act like EVERYTHING is bulletproff. These cheap turbos do in fact last and DO make more power and in fact be an upgrade over ANY ct based turbo.

Ok Baktasht, what other "evidence" do you need? Be very specific, so I can get you the "evidence" that you need. If you would like, I am going to my friend Mannys house in 2 weeks. He owns the car that I compared against the Ebay T3, and I will get a video of me racing him.......and we will see if that 50whp doesn't compensate for the area under (600rpms of spool and 1000rpms to full boost difference) the curve LOLOLOLOLOL. Be VERY specific so I can get a video/proof of what you are SPECIFICALLY looking for. This way we can put this rumor that the T3 turbos arent an upgrade/dont make power over the CT based turbos to rest! And good to hear that you will honor your statement, because I WILL take you up on it.

[_Jim_]

Originally Posted by Sang

^ That is the one of worst comparison graphs you could post to rebuttal with. What you failed to disclose in that graph is that Manny's ct27 pull was at 13psi, and the Ebay turbo was at 16.7psi.

Given that Manny pulled ~195whp at 9psi, 10whp/1psi generalization gives a observation that he'd make ~235whp at 13psi (which he did exactly that). Continuing this generalization that 10whp=1psi (and it should since the ct27 is still efficient at these power levels), he'd be around ~270whp at 16.5psi which is only 15whp less than the ebay turbo at 16.7psi and i'd expect they'd be very similar on torque. The reason why the ebay turbo doesn't fall off in the topend as much is because it peaks nearly 1.3K rpms later...Manny's graph reaches it's plateau at nearly 3.3K rpms and levels off, gaining maybe 10 ft/lbs over the next 1K rpms before it starts to fall off. Whereas the ebay turbo peaks at 4.7K rpms and immediately starts to drop. If you find where the ebay turbo hits the SAME torque as manny, that's at about 4.1K...so it's spooling nearly 800 rpms later for what...15whp and less AUC?

So really...that graph doesn't prove anything in your favor.

M $.02

Awwww that is cute Sang, that you are going to argue with me about what Manny did on the Dyno...LOLOLOLOL. Do you know him personally, because it seems as tho your "math" was a guess at best. And a very BAD guess at that. I know Manny on a VERY personal Level. And in fact you are VERY wrong. Like I STATED BOTH RUNS WERE AT 16.7 PSI. Yes that includeds Mannys run. So, apparently your math seems to be lacking (or maybe you ASS-U-MED) THAT IS A DIFFEENCE OF 47.3WHP! So yes, it is VERY much so an Imporvment over stock.

Sorry, I hate to be so mean about it, but that statement of assuming boost levels really pissed me off! I personally know the guy, and I am trying to share REAL HARD EVIDENCE to the community,that everyone seems to be asking for......and then I get respectable members coming in and trying to actually falsify the evidence with Assumptions. Please dont do that again, if you knew me better.....you would know I am Not ********, If I am wrong....I am wrong, and I wont spread miss information just to make my self seem better. NEVER DO THAT AGAIN!

And as for you Baktasht, I hadn't seen this post that Sang posted.....I now see what you are talking about....thanks to your quote from him. You have in fact been proven wrong, Now we needed to talk about your offer.

[_Jim_]

Uhhhhh, this just gets better and better. You post 310-330whp for the CT20B and 350WHP for the CT27. It cute that you bring these up, it shows your sheer desperation. How many years was the record held at 320whp for the CT27? And in FACT that run was done on RACEGAS. And the current 350WHP "record" was also done on race gas and 25psi. Very UNREALISTIC street car numebrs, unless you feel like filling up with 100+octane all the time. The 2 dyno plots I showed are on 2 street driven Celicas. Both are daily driven at those boost pressure and filled up with 93 octane. I wish my GF's car was not a 5sfe or I would turn up the boost and throw in race gas to wave around my BIG shot unrealistic DYNO queen Numbers. Come on, there is no need for this!

[Sang]

Originally Posted by _Jim_

Awwww that is cute Sang, that you are going to argue with me about what Manny did on the Dyno...LOLOLOLOL. Do you know him personally, because it seems as tho your "math" was a guess at best. And a very BAD guess at that. I know Manny on a VERY personal Level. And in fact you are VERY wrong. Like I STATED BOTH RUNS WERE AT 16.7 PSI. Yes that includeds Mannys run. So, apparently your math seems to be lacking (or maybe you ASS-U-MED) THAT IS A DIFFEENCE OF 47.3WHP! So yes, it is VERY much so an Imporvment over stock.

wtf are you talking about? I don't have you ASS-ume anything when the data came straight from the owner.

Here is his plot, uncorrected, at 13psi (as opposed to the 230whp plot that he posted online with SAE correction everywhere else).



So unless he upped his boost 3.7 psi AND made absolutely NO power from it. I'm calling horseshit. If I had the runfiles of those, I'm willing to bet money that the curves would be nearly identical if I overlayed the graphs....

Either you are misinforming everyone about the "facts" of the dyno, or Manny is, either way...i'm calling horseshit.

[_Jim_]

Originally Posted by kblake

Aaron has made as much as 350RWHP recently with the CT27 on a 3SGTE.

Taken from the thread you linked:



There you have it folks, an eBay turbo kit causing a catastrophic engine failure on a Toyota Celica.

Ken

Come on Kblake, I expected better from you....Uhhhh

Explain to me how he would have had metal shaving in his oil due to a missing/snapped exhaust wheel...LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL it must have gotten sucked back into the motor then LOLOLOLOLOL, forget about all the exhaust gases coming out of the exhaust manifold that would force it down the 3" downpipe,.....It deffinitly got sucked up through the Manifold and into the Head.....Or maybe he had metal shaving in his oil pan due to a spun rod bearing (nahhh that is SO MUCH more UNREALISTIC) But wait, when I broke My all mighty CT26 exhaust wheel my motor was fine, I wonder why that didnt fight the extreme pressure of exhaust gases coming out of the exhaust manifold and get sucked up into the head like this one did?

[_Jim_]

Originally Posted by Sang

wtf are you talking about? I don't have you ASS-ume anything when the data came straight from the owner.

Here is his plot, uncorrected, at 13psi (as opposed to the 230whp plot that he posted online with SAE correction everywhere else).

http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/fi...ncorrected.jpg

So unless he upped his boost 3.7 psi AND made absolutely NO power from it. I'm calling horseshit. If I had the runfiles of those, I'm willing to bet money that the curves would be nearly identical...

Either you are misinforming everyone about the "facts" of the dyno, or Manny is, either way...i'm calling horseshit.

Uhhh, why argue...I will call Manny and have him confirm hoiw much HP he made, and what boost pressure he was running.

And what will you have to say when he in fact states 235whp at 16.7 psi?

[Sang]

And the graph at 8psi creeping to 9psi.

[Sang]

Originally Posted by _Jim_

And what will you have to say when he in fact states 235whp at 16.7 psi?

What will I say? I'd say that there's something seriously wrong with his setup if he's only flowing 235whp at almost 17psi of boost...

[supershannon77]

Evening all...I am Shannon, Jim's G/F...

Yes i have been running a 57 trim t3 turbo for about 2 yrs.
I have had zero problems with the turbo...not a scare not a hiccup not anything.
I Know many of you are knocking the turbo as many have in the past...it just seems they can never get enough proof.

So I am here to offer to anyone who feels the turbo is junk or doesn't pull hard or thinks the turbo is going to blow and fly threw the firewall and hit me in my head to come test drive my car.

I offer that to everyone bc...I want everyone who is knocking it and saying all these horrible things to actually feel it and make there opinion from there from what they actually experienced...bc I am driving this car hard every day with no problems and I can sit here and say it over and over...I want you all to have something to base what ur saying on something real...from your own experience not what u "know" or what you have heard...seriously please come test drive my car.

Also my car at 11psi made just a little more power then Manny's at 16 psi. It was basically the same whp but Manny was also running 110 octane.

So everyone I live In New Jersey pretty close to the city..who wants a ride? I also visit MA a lot so ppl from around there can try it out when I'm there..

6strings aren't you on 6gc.net and didn't you run a real garret turbo 42 trim...you sold it to etak who also blew his engine...I can post pictures of it unless I am mistaking.

TO the owner of this thread sorry Im lost in sn's since there is so many pages...awesome work.

[Bak@EMSPowered]

Originally Posted by _Jim_

Hahaha, its funny, because I expected to hear more area under the curve.....faster spool....blahh blahh blahh. Well it is a larger turbo! It will naturally spool later than the Peashooter CT based turbos. But now you guys are just digging for to complain about. Here is the thing. If you build these kits right, you will indeed save a ton of money and have a long lasting kit. My GF is going on 2 yeras now. And the CT based turbos arent bullet proff either, I have pictures of a ct26 that I snapped the exhaust wheel off. So thats not act like EVERYTHING is bulletproff. These cheap turbos do in fact last and DO make more power and in fact be an upgrade over ANY ct based turbo.

Ok Baktasht, what other "evidence" do you need? Be very specific, so I can get you the "evidence" that you need. If you would like, I am going to my friend Mannys house in 2 weeks. He owns the car that I compared against the Ebay T3, and I will get a video of me racing him.......and we will see if that 50whp doesn't compensate for the area under (600rpms of spool and 1000rpms to full boost difference) the curve LOLOLOLOLOL. Be VERY specific so I can get a video/proof of what you are SPECIFICALLY looking for. This way we can put this rumor that the T3 turbos arent an upgrade/dont make power over the CT based turbos to rest! And good to hear that you will honor your statement, because I WILL take you up on it.

Simple... UNCORRECTED dyno graph with exact boost pressure you're running. Listing of all performance related mods on the car. It'd be nice to see some pics of the car with the setup installed as well. There's plenty of people that have come and gone in the years that couldn't even keep their own lies straight.

[hmong337]

Originally Posted by supershannon77

Evening all...I am Shannon, Jim's G/F...

Yes i have been running a 57 trim t3 turbo for about 2 yrs.
I have had zero problems with the turbo...not a scare not a hiccup not anything.
I Know many of you are knocking the turbo as many have in the past...it just seems they can never get enough proof.

So I am here to offer to anyone who feels the turbo is junk or doesn't pull hard or thinks the turbo is going to blow and fly threw the firewall and hit me in my head to come test drive my car.

I offer that to everyone bc...I want everyone who is knocking it and saying all these horrible things to actually feel it and make there opinion from there from what they actually experienced...bc I am driving this car hard every day with no problems and I can sit here and say it over and over...I want you all to have something to base what ur saying on something real...from your own experience not what u "know" or what you have heard...seriously please come test drive my car.

Also my car at 11psi made just a little more power then Manny's at 16 psi. It was basically the same whp but Manny was also running 110 octane.

So everyone I live In New Jersey pretty close to the city..who wants a ride? I also visit MA a lot so ppl from around there can try it out when I'm there..

6strings aren't you on 6gc.net and didn't you run a real garret turbo 42 trim...you sold it to etak who also blew his engine...I can post pictures of it unless I am mistaking.

TO the owner of this thread sorry Im lost in sn's since there is so many pages...awesome work.

hi

i looked closely at your thread on 6gc.net of your 5sfe turbo build a while ago. it was pretty good and you made some nice power going 5sfte. thanks for coming here and willing to give the naysayers testdrives and whatnot.

all the best.

[presure2]

god you guys are tough some times.
sang, your just plain wrong.
the dyno that shows my 235whp run is ~15 or so psi (ive always had a bit of a creep problem with the 27, i can send you LOTS of runfiles if you want them, if both my car, AND shannons car.
same dyno, all that crap.
shannons car SLAYS my car in every way, other than spool.
and on the street, where it REALLY matters, she was walking the ct-27 @ 11.5 psi, never mind @ 16.5 psi where she made 285whp.
if you need runfiles, thats no problem, i built shannons car, tuned it on the dyno, and ran it on the street.
and any info you want on the car is all available if you just ask for it.
would i recommend someone a SSAC turbo?
no, but its hard to say anything than that she has gotten anything but great results from hers.

and bak, id worry about keeping your customers happy more than trying to debunk people here. you cant even keep that **** straight.
ill be back in the early AM with pics, details and more dynos of shannons car.

[presure2]

**** i cant sleep.

ok heres a chart for you guys.

shannons car, VS my wifeys car (yes, the car in my sig is the wifes car ), with boost logs attached.

a quick rundown of the 2 cars:
mine: ct 27, 3" turbo back exhaust,460cc injectors, FMIC, 2.25" piping, and SAFCII for tuning at the time of these dyno runs. (i havent dynoed with the WI and emanage ultimate)
shannons car is:
ebay turbo, 3" turbo back exhaust, FMIC 2.5" piping, and SAFC neo for tuning.
both cars have 98 5sfe's 100% stock longblocks.
the complete thread on shannons build can be found here:
supershannon77's new 5SFTE powered celica - 6G Celicas Forums
and for the lazy a couple of pics:




and finally the money shot:


anyone who wants, or needs runfiles, just PM me on 6gc. its where i spend most of my time. not on this **** board.

[nutty1]

thats excellent performance for a a cheap turbo kit !
I'm building out a 5sfe block with a 3sgte head and a SSAC turbo kit at the moment.
thanks for putting up the numbers and doing the all the testing...i'm really looking fwd to
getting mine together. i love this this thread! its helping alot of people like me, who may not have alot of money to invest in other brands of turbo kit.

[PETC]

I'm making more power than most of these crap Chinese turbos with an essentially stock Gen 3. Why the hell would anyone spend money on this ****?

[presure2]

Taken from the thread you linked:


Quote:
Originally Posted by 6strings
btw, the ebay turbo may have been working so far, but if/when it does fail, it could cause catastrophic damage. I finally figured out why my 5sfe blew not too long ago. I knew that the motor had metal in it that had chewed up the pistons and cylinder walls, but I didn't know where that metal had come from until I took my turbo/manifold/downpipe assembly apart and realized that the exhaust turbine for my turbo was missing altogether, and then I realized it was all in my engine...

There you have it folks, an eBay turbo kit causing a catastrophic engine failure on a Toyota Celica.

actually ken, 6strings never ran an ebay turbo.
IIRC it was a '26 that shattered.
so yea, learn to get the whole picture before you start spouting off.
you know i like ya ken, i never would have been able to build my 5sfte without your help, but coming in and just spouting off, without doing your due dilligence is just bad.

[mr2magic]

On the subject of spouting off - the last I saw this was an MR2 forum so GTFO!

Sorry, but you're just asking for that!

As I said before this thread has mutated - kill it before it hurts somebody!

All we need now is for that 3s idiot to jump on the bandwagon