3VZFE vs 5VZFE... Debate!!!

[hmong337]

I haven't seen one of these threads yet so I thought I'd start one up for good information sharing. I've read up on quite a bit of information concerning both of these units. Both seem great. However, if you were to choose one, which one would it be and why? What makes your choice of engine better over the other? Which one is better for boosting? Better for N/A? I'm at a crossroads between which one I'd go with Ultimately, it will be forged and boosted in the end. Your thoughts and opinions are deeply appreciated.





VS





all the best,

hmong337

[Davis]

Oooo that's a tough one..3VZ is cheaper and awesome, 5VZ the fact it came out of taco.

I'd go for the 5VZ!

[TomsMR2]

the 1mz because its a million pounds lighter and will make just as much power the most powerful v6 mr2 so far has been a 1mz powered car.. especially if you're rebuilding it with forged parts, theres no reason to use anything besides a 1mz. even the 5vz guys arent pushing those things hard enough to necessitate a stronger iron block.

[Jason.MZW20]

The 5VZ has more potential either boosted or normally aspirated than the 3VZ. There's no replacement for displacement.

5psi S/C 3.0L < 5psi S/C 3.4L (substitute whatever you'd like)

[hmong337]

this is going pretty good so far.......

this is what i'm coming down to. from my information digging, the 3vzfe seems to have a less fussy ecu and is pretty much "in-detonable". there isn't factual scientific data that says that the heads flow better on the 3vz but from what a lot of people are saying, they do flow better. the only downfall that i see with the 3vzfe is that the manifolds make it a pain in the ass to hook up a turbo system. as well, it's 0.4 liters less than the 5vz.

further, with the 5vzfe, it has more displacement- enough said. and, the exhaust manifolds are angled in such a way that the flanges are pointing towards the transmission casing; making it easier to hook up a turbo system like on node's cars. i don't see very many downfalls with this engine other than the internals being weaker and maybe the heads not flowing as much. yet, forged goodies would replace the internals and a good porting and polishing job should do the trick.

so as of now, i'm leaning towards the 5vzfe. not sure on the ecu situation of this engine but if i'm going to take this car that far, it will be going stand-alone... and as far as i know, weasy2k is hooked up with stand-alones from hydra.

a really big negetive about both engines... the intake manifolds look like crap and would have to be thrown out in place of a custom one like node's to make it more "turbo plumbing friendly".

[blackbob]

3VZ because I have one already and it's affordable.

[4v6]

Depends which one is cheapest....

Nah just kidding.
This is a pretty tough question because all these units have plus points and negative points.

In the uk at least the 5v is an almost impossible unit to get cheaply or to even find, however if i could find one id have it just to take a look over but i think thats a little unlikely unless i have one shipped over, so for me its a toss up between the 1mz and 3vzfe.
Either of these will be capable of high outputs if treated in similar ways.
Manifolds on both are a p.o.s including the 1mz which has some wicked edges protruding into the gasflow from the ports....the 3vz's manifolds ( especially the rear bank) have two ports that virtually exhaust into each other, no wonder these engines are strangled.
Take off all the crap parts and replace them for superior ones and i dont think youd go far wrong with either of em.

Need a "stillonthefencesmiley".

[johnny g]

I've got a 3VZ-FE.

I'm getting a 5VZ-FE that should hopefully smash the most powerful V6-in-an-MR2 record.

I'll be putting the 3VZ-FE into my Mk2 Spider - Well, Paul Woods will be doing it!

[Forrest Gump 9]

I vote for the 5VZ because coming from the 4runner background. The 3VZ have a lot of problem with HG, and it's sooo weak (at least in the 4runner). 5VZ is also almost indestructable, and the extra torque is always nice to help propel the MR2.

[4v6]

I vote for the 5VZ because coming from the 4runner background. The 3VZ have a lot of problem with HG, and it's sooo weak (at least in the 4runner). 5VZ is also almost indestructable, and the extra torque is always nice to help propel the MR2.

3vzFE wasnt in the 4runner iirc it was only the sohc 3vz. Chalk and cheese.

[trdny]

5vz all the way. More displacement is always better. I still have a 1mz with a ported head sitting in the garage because I bought a 5vz.

[conor]

It really depends on what you want to do and what you're willing to do with your engine.

If you only want a stock V6 that's going to be Toyota reliable for 200,000+ miles, then a 5VZ is a horrible choice. Low redline, low horsepower, all torque. A 3VZ is better from that standpoint, but then again, it's low horsepower and low torque compared to a 1MZ. Don't forget that cast iron weighs a crapload more than aluminum.. Stock for Stock, the 1MZ (or even 3MZ) is the best choice. It's the lightest and makes the most horsepower.

If you want to run a standalone EMS with cams and some kind of custom forced induction system, then take your pick. the 5VZ/3VZ are kind of pointless unless that's your goal, in my opinion. The Brits use 3VZs because they're a lot easier to come by over there. If they had 1MZs laying around like we do, I'm sure Paul would have used those instead.

All the same, you can get rods/pistons for a 1MZ and, like Tom said, nobody is really pushing enough power through these motors to find the weakness in the aluminum block anyway. If you're out to make 500hp, why not do it with the lighter engine?

Personally, I don't want to cope with the nightmare of all that custom work and tuning right from the start.. My stock 1MZ swap fired up on the first try and only threw one CEL (disconnected vacuum line). Purrs like a kitten, no random ignition problems (*cough*distributors suck*cough), no ghetto-rigged custom crap falling off the engine as I drive it.. no oil lines popping off turbos, etc. I might mod it later on to hit an easy 250wheel horsepower.. and that's probably more than enough.

The 5VZ mad scientist projects are fun to follow along.. but how many of them even run yet? 2 or 3 that we know of? They're a lot of work, a lot of parts, a lot of tuning and are totally unexplored territory. If you want to go down that path, you should consider that very seriously.

[Weasy2k]

Sigh...well...
STOCK FOR STOCK (ECU AND INTERNALS) AND N/A (With some turbo/sc notes) Drop in and go...
5vz vs 3vz
ECU - The 5vz is limited to 5500rpm even though it is capable of higher. The 3vz-fe ecu is less picky when it comes to CEL's and crap, also easier to throw a auto ecu into the car without as many problems. VERDICT: 3vz-fe

Intake Manifold - The 5vz has a great intake manifold but only great for lower rpm towing torque! For the mr2 this would lead to a very crappy power band. HOWEVER when boosted the intake manifold works just fine providing airflow throughout the rpm range as seen in supercharged 5vz's which see no drop in hp even at its 5500rpm redline (nobody has gone higher). The 3vz-fe intake manifold is of a better design when its put into a car application it has the variable length runners which help give air down low and into the mid-upper rpm range while providing a perfect spot for a turbo intall as it faces the tranny vs the 5vz's faces the trunk BUT ide like to add there are some failry easy things you can do with the 5vz to match/beat the 3vz-fes intake manifold...but that is for later VERDICT: 3vz-fe

Head - Once again due to the original design of the engine (to be put into a truck) the 5vz's cam profile is designed for the low/mid range power band as well as the head intake and exhaust ports made to provide great low/mid range torque. With that in mind though there is much you can do to turn this around as this designs makes a great base to build your own setup with.
The 3vz-fe has a higher flowing head and a bit better cam profile which in the end helps this engine rev up to its 6800ish redline...while it pretty much dies after 5500rpm....but still beats the 5vzs dead hp after 4000rpm...: VERDICT: 3vz-fe

Block - Well here the change occurs...while BOTH the 5vz-fe and the 3vz-fe have great internals and an AMAZING 1.8:1 Rod to Stroke ratio (and i mean amazing) the only major thing that sets the 2 engines apart is size....the 5vz takes the win with .4L more displacement and that as we all know makes a big difference! Other then that the 2 are pretty damn the same thing Verdict: 5vz-fe

Ignition - Here you got the wasted spark DIS system from the 5vz and the 3vzs disti single coil setup. I cant say anything really negative about either setup other then the 5vz dis looks much cleaner....i cant say that the 5vz is BETTER because people can argue anything, BUT since this is stock for stock comparison and not modified i would still give the 5vz the win for the fact its less maintenance then the disti type, less moving parts and cleaner combustion (wasted spark). Although in a boosted/high rpm app IF the ignition system needed to be stronger the 3vz-fe would be easier to upgrade for most people (larger coil :P) Verdict: 5vz-fe

Fuel System - Both are seq injection, both allow for a bit more upside (injector wise) as for flow both are pretty much the same. Verdict: TIE

Exhaust - The log type exhaust manifold of the 5vz-fe makes it pretty easy to build a Y pipe setup to the stock muffler or build a turbo manifold. Pretty simple stuff. The 3vz-fe one is a bit worse of a design, right from the bat but aint to hard to adapt from what i have read and seen here. Verdict: 5vz-fe (just easier)


So overall...stock vs stock N/A...the 3vz-fe will win when you just want to drop in and go.

Time and time again I will say that when you compare these engines with after market parts they will all handle the same boost and they will all flow withing a few % of each other...but in the end the 5vz will come out on top just because of that extra displacement...ALL these engines were built on a similar design even the mz's...to compare it all with forged everything is pretty pointless as all the engines have seen high HP with no problems.

In the very near future i will be showing off what things you can do with the 5vz to make it kick all 3 motors asses With just a couple changes to make them = to the other car based v6's

[hfmt93]

3vzfe
For my aplication it was simple. the initial cost was less, parts are less and easier to find, wiring is more simple, and my opinion is that the 3vzfe's car powerband is more suited for my car than the 5vzfe's powerband for my car.

It should be more fun to drive now and i am not trying to make 800 hp

[Weasy2k]

^ yep that is a perfect example of when i would put the 3vz-fe into a car...simple and cheap!

[hmong337]

^ yep that is a perfect example of when i would put the 3vz-fe into a car...simple and cheap!

question... what about the opposite end of that. going for that 800hp car? is there a certain unit that you'd chose over the other and why?


thanks for your insight

[D-spec]

3VZ-GTE

[whore of babylon]

Idd go with 1MZFE, it makes good power and tho its a little bit of a hassle to wire in, i think its worth the extra time. but if i had to choose from the other two, idd go with the 3VZFE reasons: Price, Avalibility, Simple and sexy lookin.

[johnny g]

question... what about the opposite end of that. going for that 800hp car? is there a certain unit that you'd chose over the other and why?


thanks for your insight

Watch this space. 800bhp maybe not... 650, almost definately.

[Weasy2k]

What makes the 1mz or even the 3vz easier to install then the 5vz? The only 2 things that make it different is there is no EASY front mount setup but save up a few bucks and use the 4v6 mount which bolts on and works VERY well....the second is for turbo trannys only and that is the carrier bearing mount which i am in the process of making as well. Other then those 2 things there is nothing more difficult at all. The wiring is easier then the 1mz as there is no immobilizer BS to fix and you can find many 5spd 5vz's out there. Cost? I have found several $500 engines before, but of course when im looking for them they are never around

The only other thing would be the intake manifold, they are to dang tall to fit nicley in the engine bay, but i again have a fix that i am working on here

Its just as easy everyone to install a 5vz into a mr2...there is no difference between all the engines when it comes to having them all built up with FI, just displacement.

Can a 5vz handle 800hp? Yes it can there is a 800hp twin turbo 4runner out there already. Not much info on it but i talked to the owner over the phone and he intends to put out more info soon to make it more believable to people.

5vz > life