1mz vvti starting problem

mr2good · 04-01-2009, 11:33 AM

Please read everythinig before or if youre going to reply cause it seems like when i type something about whatever problem im having someone ask " did you do this " even though I stated in my first post i have. Ok im about out of ideals. I got a 2000 lexus lmz vvti v6. Phoenixtuning.com did my wiring harness for me. Anyway if I turn it over an hold it it cranks but won't spark an start up. But if I crank it turn it off crank it turn it off an crank it again usually by the 2nd or3rd time it will spark an run for like 2 sec an die. The spark is orang like it's weak. It gives me the usual tranny codes an it gave me a cam sensor code once an I tried swaping the sensors around to see if the code would switch sides but it never came back. So fare I bought from toyota 2 cam sensors a crank sensor a ignition switch an a ignition relay. I've tested everything I can think of an grounded the motor in 100 diff places. The coils while cranking hold a constant 11 volts to them. Toyota doesn't have a resistance spec for those coils but they all tested the same or close to each other. An I highly doubt all 6 coils could be bad. The ecu was sent off to abc lock and key to have the immobilizer removed. The funny thing is it had stickers on it from the yard I got it from saying " if broke or tampered with warranty void " was cut like it was opened. Supposedly they reflash it not open. So the only ideal I have left is to replace the ecu with another one. Ncturnal said I could borrow his since we live somewhat close to each other but hes always busy i guess. So any ideals would be great before i drop another 160$ or so on a different ecu and reflash it. Heres a really crappy vid of what its doing. bare with it. I took the vid in my ware house with poor lighting and my cam didnt have a light. But it clears up towards the middle and you see what im talking about.

You Tube

mr2good · 04-02-2009, 12:12 AM

anyone?

nathand · 04-02-2009, 10:07 AM

Are you sure you have fuel pressure?

mr2good · 04-02-2009, 10:41 AM

lol yes im very sure and hteres gas on hte plugs. But fuel pressure doesnt solve the intermitant spark problem that all the coils (well all the coils I could get to with out having to take the intake off) are doing. As you can see while its turning over its not sparking but as soon as it sparks it fires up. Do you know if it could be that they did the wiring wrong like not hook something to the right place that would cause these symptoms, or is there anything in doing the wiring job that pertains to the ignition system? I paid to have phoenixtuning do my harness so i wouldnt have any problems starting it ect ect and of course this is my luck

V6'er · 04-02-2009, 07:57 PM

Ok, don't know if I missed this anywhere: is the Igniter well-grounded to the bracket and body?

mr2good · 04-02-2009, 09:07 PM

The car doesn't have a ignitor. It's got a 4 wire coil pack that the ignitor is built into. An like I said I can put my meter on the coilpack while turning the motor over and it's keeping a constant 11 volts even thought the spark is intermitant

V6'er · 04-02-2009, 09:13 PM

Ok, so it's a 6-cop setup then?

You'll never see ignition pulses without an oscilloscope or a Noid light at least.

mr2good · 04-02-2009, 09:58 PM

I thought all vvti motors was 6 cop?Wasn't really trying to see ignition pulses. Was just testing that the power was getting to the cop and holding it and not droping off or something

V6'er · 04-02-2009, 10:16 PM

Oh, what can I say, I forgot that VVT-i motors are all COP. I'm so old school with my three coil packs.

mr2good · 04-02-2009, 10:18 PM

Lol time to upgrade

DaveMush · 04-03-2009, 11:55 AM

Try checking the engine harness grounds. The one on the back of the intake manifold is super important to the ecm. How many engine to body grounds do you have?

mr2good · 04-03-2009, 12:17 PM

Let's see. On the drivers side I got on coming from the braket bolted to the then on coming from the lower intake. On the pass side I got one from the waterneck. Then 2 from from the side of the intake. All these grounds are going to the chassis. Then of course there the 2 coming out the engine harness going to the back of the intake. Which I got a wire on top of the engine harness ground also going to the chassis. Thats about it.

Jason.MZW20 · 04-03-2009, 06:14 PM

You should also have a large gauge ground cable connecting the transmission to the chassis on the driver's side.

I have about 3 ground cables on the transmission going to the chassis. I used all of the ground cables that came with my harness. I also have a ground cable on the front bank cylinder head, which connects with the transmission to chassis one.

mr2good · 04-03-2009, 06:21 PM

Oh yeah for got there's also the tranny chassis ground and the other ground you said. Also had like a big battery cable wire going from the bottom of the engine to the fram part by the wheel well on the pass side

Jason.MZW20 · 04-03-2009, 06:45 PM

Hmm, I'd need a wiring diagram for the VVT-i 1MZ to help any further. There's just too much I don't know about it.

Since this is an independent ignition system, the spark is precisely timed to each cylinder, but because of the VVT-i system and the changes in timing that occur on the intake side, this can change depending on what the ECU wants. At low operating temperatures and during cranking, the VVT-i system doesn't operate, so we can remove that variable I think. I'm not sure if there's a check valve inside the motor to prevent oil flow to the VVT-i system during that time.

mr2good · 04-03-2009, 07:21 PM

That's cool well I appreciate the suggestions. Guess I'm just going to try a different ecu. I want to try an wire in the immobilizer but not sure how hard it is. Otec said it's just 4 wires but I'm not sure what all components I need

DaveMush · 04-06-2009, 07:11 AM

immobilizer key amplifier, immobilizer pick-up coil, immobilizer key.

most places sell the key with steering column, NOT with the ECU. You may have to do some wheeling and dealing on that one.

mr2good · 04-06-2009, 09:50 AM

Well i found a place selling a 2000 avalon ecu with the ignition switch and key. Im not sure if all those parts you listed are part of the ignition switch or not. And another thing I have a 2000 es300 with out egr. I know some later models come with a egr. So im not sure if any of the wiring would be different for the avalon ecu as far as teh starting system ect. i would need to run the car. Soooo i havent found a ecu number that matches mine with a key and ignition switch. Just a ecu and key. And im not sure if i want to buy the avalon one and then the wiring for it be different and not work either. Lol cause then i might just get really pissed and burn the car all together

rally2 · 04-14-2009, 11:53 PM

I would start by tracing out the wiring. I know it's a pain but it is definitely either the wiring or ECU.

When I did mine I studied the diagrams for about a day to see what needed to be added to the MR2 side of things from the Lexus side of things. There really wasn't all that much. There was only about half a dozen wires that needed to be fed from the body harness to the ECU.

If all the wires check out then try to borrow a reflashed ECU.

I think I drew a simplified chart that told what wire from the body plug went to what wire on the ECU. I'll see if I can find it.

Thanks,

Jeremy

mr2good · 04-23-2009, 07:15 AM

Thanks man. I paid a company that does these all the time. Well not this particular motor but toyota motor swap in general. So the wiring should be right. He went through with me doing all the basic checks to make sure it is right and everything checked out. Jsut the freaking spark issue. So only thing to do now is replace the ecu. Just been procrastenating cause i would rather just borrow a known good working one rather than throw more money at it lol

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04-02-2009, 12:12 AM	#2 (permalink)
mr2good Some Skills Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 85 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	anyone?

04-02-2009, 10:07 AM	#3 (permalink)
nathand Some Skills Join Date: May 2007 Location: Sachse, TX Posts: 65 Thanks: 7 Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	Are you sure you have fuel pressure?

04-02-2009, 10:41 AM	#4 (permalink)
mr2good Some Skills Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 85 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	lol yes im very sure and hteres gas on hte plugs. But fuel pressure doesnt solve the intermitant spark problem that all the coils (well all the coils I could get to with out having to take the intake off) are doing. As you can see while its turning over its not sparking but as soon as it sparks it fires up. Do you know if it could be that they did the wiring wrong like not hook something to the right place that would cause these symptoms, or is there anything in doing the wiring job that pertains to the ignition system? I paid to have phoenixtuning do my harness so i wouldnt have any problems starting it ect ect and of course this is my luck

04-02-2009, 07:57 PM	#5 (permalink)
V6'er All Torque, All the Time Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 899 Thanks: 0 Thanked 26 Times in 19 Posts iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	Ok, don't know if I missed this anywhere: is the Igniter well-grounded to the bracket and body?

04-02-2009, 09:07 PM	#6 (permalink)
mr2good Some Skills Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 85 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	The car doesn't have a ignitor. It's got a 4 wire coil pack that the ignitor is built into. An like I said I can put my meter on the coilpack while turning the motor over and it's keeping a constant 11 volts even thought the spark is intermitant

04-02-2009, 09:13 PM	#7 (permalink)
V6'er All Torque, All the Time Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 899 Thanks: 0 Thanked 26 Times in 19 Posts iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	Ok, so it's a 6-cop setup then? You'll never see ignition pulses without an oscilloscope or a Noid light at least.

04-02-2009, 09:58 PM	#8 (permalink)
mr2good Some Skills Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 85 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	I thought all vvti motors was 6 cop?Wasn't really trying to see ignition pulses. Was just testing that the power was getting to the cop and holding it and not droping off or something

04-02-2009, 10:16 PM	#9 (permalink)
V6'er All Torque, All the Time Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 899 Thanks: 0 Thanked 26 Times in 19 Posts iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	Oh, what can I say, I forgot that VVT-i motors are all COP. I'm so old school with my three coil packs.

04-02-2009, 10:18 PM	#10 (permalink)
mr2good Some Skills Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 85 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Lol time to upgrade

04-03-2009, 11:55 AM	#11 (permalink)
DaveMush Mr2 V6 #8 Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Syracuse, Ny Posts: 413 Thanks: 0 Thanked 14 Times in 11 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Try checking the engine harness grounds. The one on the back of the intake manifold is super important to the ecm. How many engine to body grounds do you have?

04-03-2009, 12:17 PM	#12 (permalink)
mr2good Some Skills Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 85 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Let's see. On the drivers side I got on coming from the braket bolted to the then on coming from the lower intake. On the pass side I got one from the waterneck. Then 2 from from the side of the intake. All these grounds are going to the chassis. Then of course there the 2 coming out the engine harness going to the back of the intake. Which I got a wire on top of the engine harness ground also going to the chassis. Thats about it.

04-03-2009, 06:14 PM	#13 (permalink)
Jason.MZW20 Pig Snout Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Victorville, CA Posts: 1,373 Thanks: 15 Thanked 111 Times in 102 Posts Blog Entries: 6 iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	You should also have a large gauge ground cable connecting the transmission to the chassis on the driver's side. I have about 3 ground cables on the transmission going to the chassis. I used all of the ground cables that came with my harness. I also have a ground cable on the front bank cylinder head, which connects with the transmission to chassis one.

04-03-2009, 06:21 PM	#14 (permalink)
mr2good Some Skills Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 85 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Oh yeah for got there's also the tranny chassis ground and the other ground you said. Also had like a big battery cable wire going from the bottom of the engine to the fram part by the wheel well on the pass side

04-03-2009, 06:45 PM	#15 (permalink)
Jason.MZW20 Pig Snout Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Victorville, CA Posts: 1,373 Thanks: 15 Thanked 111 Times in 102 Posts Blog Entries: 6 iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	Hmm, I'd need a wiring diagram for the VVT-i 1MZ to help any further. There's just too much I don't know about it. Since this is an independent ignition system, the spark is precisely timed to each cylinder, but because of the VVT-i system and the changes in timing that occur on the intake side, this can change depending on what the ECU wants. At low operating temperatures and during cranking, the VVT-i system doesn't operate, so we can remove that variable I think. I'm not sure if there's a check valve inside the motor to prevent oil flow to the VVT-i system during that time.

04-03-2009, 07:21 PM	#16 (permalink)
mr2good Some Skills Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 85 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	That's cool well I appreciate the suggestions. Guess I'm just going to try a different ecu. I want to try an wire in the immobilizer but not sure how hard it is. Otec said it's just 4 wires but I'm not sure what all components I need

04-06-2009, 07:11 AM	#17 (permalink)
DaveMush Mr2 V6 #8 Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Syracuse, Ny Posts: 413 Thanks: 0 Thanked 14 Times in 11 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	immobilizer key amplifier, immobilizer pick-up coil, immobilizer key. most places sell the key with steering column, NOT with the ECU. You may have to do some wheeling and dealing on that one.

04-06-2009, 09:50 AM	#18 (permalink)
mr2good Some Skills Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 85 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Well i found a place selling a 2000 avalon ecu with the ignition switch and key. Im not sure if all those parts you listed are part of the ignition switch or not. And another thing I have a 2000 es300 with out egr. I know some later models come with a egr. So im not sure if any of the wiring would be different for the avalon ecu as far as teh starting system ect. i would need to run the car. Soooo i havent found a ecu number that matches mine with a key and ignition switch. Just a ecu and key. And im not sure if i want to buy the avalon one and then the wiring for it be different and not work either. Lol cause then i might just get really pissed and burn the car all together

04-14-2009, 11:53 PM	#19 (permalink)
rally2 No Skills Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 49 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	I would start by tracing out the wiring. I know it's a pain but it is definitely either the wiring or ECU. When I did mine I studied the diagrams for about a day to see what needed to be added to the MR2 side of things from the Lexus side of things. There really wasn't all that much. There was only about half a dozen wires that needed to be fed from the body harness to the ECU. If all the wires check out then try to borrow a reflashed ECU. I think I drew a simplified chart that told what wire from the body plug went to what wire on the ECU. I'll see if I can find it. Thanks, Jeremy

04-23-2009, 07:15 AM	#20 (permalink)
mr2good Some Skills Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 85 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Thanks man. I paid a company that does these all the time. Well not this particular motor but toyota motor swap in general. So the wiring should be right. He went through with me doing all the basic checks to make sure it is right and everything checked out. Jsut the freaking spark issue. So only thing to do now is replace the ecu. Just been procrastenating cause i would rather just borrow a known good working one rather than throw more money at it lol