V6 peeps...Lets talk Exhausts

[TRD_MR2_DRGN]

Originally Posted by PsychoSquirrel_NZ

dont think any manufacturer in the past 15 years made straightcut tranny gears for any of their cars except the racing ones.

who's car do you mean by their cars. you mean the mr2? can it be custom made then?

[Spektrewing386]

i mean their cars *as in BMW, Toyota, Honda, Ford... any car manufacturer*

im sure there are companys that custom make them, but i wouldnt like to see the price tag. your best bet is: http://www.atsracing.net/transmissions.htm

[DarkMousy]

AFAIK, none of the nsx's have straight cut gears (except maybe the first one). The black nsx is an nsx-r conversion owned by Vancehu on prime, and I'm pretty sure the red and white nsx's are on prime as well. None of them have straight cut gears from waht I know.

Also, my mr2 is a summer weekend only car that's going to see alot of track days, if I want a lower profile, I have a beater civic and an acura TL to drive around.

Also, I never said that small block chevy's and civics with fart cans sound the same. I just said that both fall into the lower spectrum of pitch. I forgot another low pitched group - boxer engines (ie. scoobies with huge cans). None of the civics have "f1" style exhausts in my area anyways, most have those low, rumbly farting exhausts. I don't particularly dislike the sound of a small block v8, if I had a vette or camaro that's how I'd want it to sound. I just don't think it suits a car like the mr2.

And yes, I hate those civics that drive at WOT at 3am with an extremely loud fart can down my street. I have a parking lot in my backyard (there's a church behind my fence) so I get big ricer parties behind my house all the time.
I usually hear things like this (maybe a little deeper):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDJwn5jl1og

[TRD_MR2_DRGN]

Originally Posted by PsychoSquirrel_NZ

i mean their cars *as in BMW, Toyota, Honda, Ford... any car manufacturer*

im sure there are companys that custom make them, but i wouldnt like to see the price tag. your best bet is: http://www.atsracing.net/transmissions.htm

Hmmm. . . I'll have to think about that. That's almost $800 and I loose my core. Gonna try a used trany, so I can keep my core (wanna do a V6 with a hybrid trany in the far far future).

[conor]

I don't think anyone actually makes straight-cut gears for the E-series gearbox. You'd have to pay someone to make a custom set, which would probably run a a couple tens of thousands of dollars.

[hfmt93]

What about the square ports on the 3vzfe? How do you make a set of round headers when the ports are square?

It seems that the stock manifold would be a bottleneck, but i think i remember toysrme's guide saying that headers would not make any power. Is this still what everybody thinks?

Where does the stock manifold become a major restriction? If your only looking at a somewhat mild build(300-400hp) is it worth the effort?

Would it make a difference if you want to go N/A, compared to turbo, compared to supercharged?

Is their some chinese pos company that makes cheap headers that can be made to fit right for these engines?

[D-spec]

Originally Posted by hfmt93

What about the square ports on the 3vzfe? How do you make a set of round headers when the ports are square?

It seems that the stock manifold would be a bottleneck, but i think i remember toysrme's guide saying that headers would not make any power. Is this still what everybody thinks?

Where does the stock manifold become a major restriction? If your only looking at a somewhat mild build(300-400hp) is it worth the effort?

Would it make a difference if you want to go N/A, compared to turbo, compared to supercharged?

Is their some chinese pos company that makes cheap headers that can be made to fit right for these engines?

I'm using the factory Castiron "logs" and starting my custom turbo manifold below on their 2.5inch 2bolt opening. simple and sweet.

Not worth the effort to go tubular unless you go square tubing and that would look awesome (performance might be sketchy)

Proven: Headers don't make power
Proven: Headers are expensive (the good ones)
Proven: Turbochargers off the factory logs work awesome!
Proven: If it ain't broke, DON"T FIX IT!

[Spektrewing386]

lets see that manifold/design you got d-spec

[hfmt93]

Originally Posted by D-spec

Proven: If it ain't broke, DON"T FIX IT!

great.

thats what I was hoping to hear. By the way where is it Proven?

[D-spec]

Originally Posted by PsychoSquirrel_NZ

lets see that manifold/design you got d-spec

It is just an adaptation of the y pipe (except custom), very similar to ground already covered by Weasy and Node. Cheap and effective. Don't worry though, I'll have plenty of pics of the manifold design and the 4" downpipe

Dave

[D-spec]

Originally Posted by hfmt93

great.

thats what I was hoping to hear. By the way where is it Proven?

Stickies in the v6 forum. Tons of info about how nothing but a supercharger/head porting/"cogging"/turbocharger will make a bit of difference. Even intakes don't add hp to the 3vz! Lots of good info

[Gimpster]

Well, ... just my opinion:

I'd say that gains could be had from a well designed set of headers + proper engine managment of it. HOWEVER, you'd mostly be shifting the torque curve around and stuff of that nature. I don't think you'd ever see any NOTABLE gains in horse power. I would agree that, particularly in my 95 1MZ's case, they're doing about the best they can NA. There is no magic part thats going to suddenly make it a 250whp motor w/o cracking it open or shoving some boost into it.

[conor]

*cough* headers/y-pipe *cough* The stock y-pipe does kind of force the rear manifold to exit into the stream from the front manifold, after all.

[TomsMR2]

straight cut gears are actually weaker.. kinda by a pretty big margin. if you look you'll see a straight cut gear has MUCH less surface area meshing with eachother.

helical gears thrust though.. a straight cut gear doesnt. theres much less loss in a straight cut transmission vs helical because of the lack of thrust. a helical gear is constantly trying to push itself apart, the more power you push through, the more it thrusts and more power it loses (hense drivetrain loss in helical gears being a percentage instead of a fixed number). when you get into spec racing engines with displacement limits and intake restrictors, less powerloss in the drivetrain means an advantage and a faster car.

Proven: Headers don't make power

id love to see your proof. i wouldnt be surprised to see 20whp over the stock ypipe and manifolds with a good header and ypipe combo.

[D-spec]

Originally Posted by TomsMR2

straight cut gears are actually weaker.. kinda by a pretty big margin. if you look you'll see a straight cut gear has MUCH less surface area meshing with eachother.

helical gears thrust though.. a straight cut gear doesnt. theres much less loss in a straight cut transmission vs helical because of the lack of thrust. a helical gear is constantly trying to push itself apart, the more power you push through, the more it thrusts and more power it loses (hense drivetrain loss in helical gears being a percentage instead of a fixed number). when you get into spec racing engines with displacement limits and intake restrictors, less powerloss in the drivetrain means an advantage and a faster car.


id love to see your proof. i wouldnt be surprised to see 20whp over the stock ypipe and manifolds with a good header and ypipe combo.

I'm not the one who has to prove it. I'm not really an N/A guy in the first place. The other "board" (which shall remain nameless), has several posts and stickies that show how little you gain from exhaust. I don't consider 20bhp for 500-1000 dollars (not DIY, but custom tubular headers from an exhaust shop) to be a gain at all IMO. Expecially when F/I is not much more expensive than that and the gains are so much more per $...but I digress, this is the EXHAUST thread and I'd rather not prolong the N/A vs. Turbo debate just in case someone who reads this thread might actually want to know what exhaust would be good for their v6 setup (f/i or n/a respectively). Btw, feel free to spend that 500-1000 and prove everyone wrong at the dyno, you know how 6er's like to say things and not back it up with the slips

[conor]

Some of us don't want the added hassle of forced induction. The V6 swap isn't just for power-hungry drag racers.. Some of us are doing it to improve the overall performance of the car. Take my swap for example.. it's going to put out ~67 more horsepower and ~65 more lb/ft of torque than the 4-banger I threw away, (never mind the fatter power band) get almost the same fuel economy, be more reliable, run cleaner, still runs on 87 octane, etc.. I don't want 400hp and all the nonsense that comes along with it. But a little extra kick in the pants from headers and a y-pipe? Sure!


Now... How is forced induction cheaper?

Headers:
- ~$800 from Brad Bedell, the Solara guys or eBay crap for lots less if you can find them
- Custom y-pipe


Forced Induction:
- TRD S/C Kit ~$3000 (if you can find one.. and even if you use this, you still benefit from headers!)
- Turbo
- Intercooler
- Hot/Cold piping with silicone couplers/clamps
- Oil lines for turbo
- Exhaust manifold-->turbo pipe construction
- Downpipe
- Fuel injectors
- Uprated fuel pump
- Custom intake manifold (optional? eh?)
- Engine management system
- Dyno tuning for above EMS
- Custom y-pipe
- Intake pipe for turbo

I'd like to see you do all of that for less than $3k using new parts... We all know that people can take shortcuts and cobble stuff together with junkyard parts all they like, but that dramatically affects overall reliability, both long-term and day-to-day. So feel free to spend a lot of extra money on forced induction for a car that isn't as streetable or reliable as a stockish V6. I'm honestly surprised that nobody's done a 5VZ with a TRD S/C and maybe just cams and mild EMS.. It'd be ridiculously simple, put out a ton of power and be pretty reliable all at once.

[D-spec]

Originally Posted by conor

Some of us don't want the added hassle of forced induction. The V6 swap isn't just for power-hungry drag racers.. Some of us are doing it to improve the overall performance of the car. Take my swap for example.. it's going to put out ~67 more horsepower and ~65 more lb/ft of torque than the 4-banger I threw away, (never mind the fatter power band) get almost the same fuel economy, be more reliable, run cleaner, still runs on 87 octane, etc.. I don't want 400hp and all the nonsense that comes along with it. But a little extra kick in the pants from headers and a y-pipe? Sure!


Now... How is forced induction cheaper?

Headers:
- ~$800 from Brad Bedell, the Solara guys or eBay crap for lots less if you can find them
- Custom y-pipe


Forced Induction:
- TRD S/C Kit ~$3000 (if you can find one.. and even if you use this, you still benefit from headers!)
- Turbo
- Intercooler
- Hot/Cold piping with silicone couplers/clamps
- Oil lines for turbo
- Exhaust manifold-->turbo pipe construction
- Downpipe
- Fuel injectors
- Uprated fuel pump
- Custom intake manifold (optional? eh?)
- Engine management system
- Dyno tuning for above EMS
- Custom y-pipe
- Intake pipe for turbo

I'd like to see you do all of that for less than $3k using new parts... We all know that people can take shortcuts and cobble stuff together with junkyard parts all they like, but that dramatically affects overall reliability, both long-term and day-to-day. So feel free to spend a lot of extra money on forced induction for a car that isn't as streetable or reliable as a stockish V6. I'm honestly surprised that nobody's done a 5VZ with a TRD S/C and maybe just cams and mild EMS.. It'd be ridiculously simple, put out a ton of power and be pretty reliable all at once.

I'm saying the RATIO of HP/$ is better going turbo. Less than 3k is easy.

400 rebuilt turbo (like new)
150 Piping(s)
350 Ems (MS)
200 Welding shop if you can't DIY
300 60lbs injectors
75 Stock Sidemount I/C setup (if you don't have one)
Roughly 1500 if you don't shop around (i'm not including tax or incidental stuff like clamps) and you can run 400bhp on that setup. 800--->20hp is not as much of a value per dollar as 1500--->200hp gain. Some of us are F/I, some N/A. We should all just agree to disagree. I'll never understand paying 1000's of dollars for a mere 20-100hp when for 1500~ you can get reliable daily boostage.

At the very least you still have a V6 MR2 that can make a 3sgte your bitch all day long!

CALL A CEASE FIRE!

[conor]

.

[conor]

^^^^

I'll be sure to dyno the difference when I get headers, ha ha.

Seriously though, the stock manifolds and y-pipe are rubbish. I can't imagine headers not allowing for more power =x

[TomsMR2]

^i was amazed that the stock manifolds dump exhaust backwards against flow into eachother. the crappy 5s doesnt do that, and people dyno 10-12whp on those.

id gladly take 20hp from na headers over 50, 60, 70 hp from a crappy turbo. we dont all share the same goals.