My '93 V6 - Stock and Dyno'd!

[conor]

Finally got my car dyno'd after having it running for 2 years and street legal/driven for five months and 4,000 miles.

The car:







Restrictive stock exhaust:



Aaaaand the dyno sheet:



The blip in the middle of each curve is the V6's ACIS manifold switching from long runner mode to short runner mode. The torque fall-off is typical of the engine.. and pretty much just like what the 5SFE (my old engine) had.

Overall, I'm pleased with the outcome; Especially the torque numbers!

Specs:
- 1993 MR2 body
- 1993 Camry V6 gear ratios (taller)
- 1998 Avalon long block with 2000 Camry electronics/manifolds
- Stock 3-cat exhaust system (pictured above)
- OEM MR2 Turbo muffler
- Injen intake


My next trip to the dyno will be with a non-restrictive y-pipe installed.. Note the smooth merge instead of the factory "ram the front/rear banks into each other!" pipe. I'll also be swapping the stock turbo muffler out for an HKS Sport. I've driven the car previously with this y-pipe installed.. and the butt dyno indicates the presence of more horsepower, so we'll just have to see how it does on a real dyno!

[MRH]

nice bro, nice!

does the cone filter work well where it is placed? I was thinking of doing something similar to my 5S-FE.

-H

[Davis]

Loving it Conor, besides the black wheels.

[Basement Digital]

Love the plate, the engine, the wheels and the missing spoiler! Good job!

[Jason.MZW20]

Any reporting difference between a DynaPack and a DynoJet?

[shizmixin]

Hey dude by any chance would you remember were you got you're right engine mount passenger side mount for you're 1mzfe engine and you're x trd rear sway bars are sick, do you think toyota still offers them or are they discontinued. also if you manufactured you're mount could you please donate a piece of info on how to go about my mount. "my boy and I have the exact same model 91t top 5sfe, were both upgrading to v6 only difference is he has 99 engine block vvti and i have a 96 block, we both need the mounts, or info on what mount to buy and then modify. Youre feedback would be appreciated

[conor]

Originally Posted by Jason.MZW20

Any reporting difference between a DynaPack and a DynoJet?

Apparently. I'm not up on the specifics though. The DynaPack had an input for my final gear ratio as well as exact tire size, though.

[conor]

Originally Posted by shizmixin

Hey dude by any chance would you remember were you got you're right engine mount passenger side mount for you're 1mzfe engine and you're x trd rear sway bars are sick, do you think toyota still offers them or are they discontinued. also if you manufactured you're mount could you please donate a piece of info on how to go about my mount. "my boy and I have the exact same model 91t top 5sfe, were both upgrading to v6 only difference is he has 99 engine block vvti and i have a 96 block, we both need the mounts, or info on what mount to buy and then modify. Youre feedback would be appreciated

1) It's custom-made.
2) TRD strut tower bars are discontinued.
3) Making your own mounts.. I did the same thing you'll see that people did in several other V6 swaps (the early ones from 2004-2005, at least): Used another driver's side mount. My buddy hacked it up and welded it to a chunk of plate steel to my specifications. I installed all three other mounts and the engine in the car.. then took measurements.

[3VZ-FE]

So when is the next dynorun? Should be able to gain decent hp with the new setup

[Levi_]

Also interested in a dyno of the new Y-pipe, I've never been able to find an actual comparison dyno of stock vs custom y-pipe. I took my car to the exhaust shop today and they said modifying the y-pipe wouldn't make anymore power =/

[te51levin]

Originally Posted by Levi_

I took my car to the exhaust shop today and they said modifying the y-pipe wouldn't make anymore power =/

Working in a muffler shop does not make one an engineer, just as drinking milk does not make you a dairy farmer. Cutting pipes and welding mufflers onto cars does not make those guys any more qualified than anyone else to make a visual assessment of how much power that design is hiding. Most of us are equally unqualified, really, and that's why there are dynos. I am looking forward to the official results of the new Y-pipe.

[Jason.MZW20]

^ But at least we have enough sense to know that when the rear bank's exhaust flow collides with the front bank's, it creates a restriction (back pressure). The engine will then use more power just to push the exhaust out.

You'll see that Toyota changed the Y-pipe design in 2000 on the VVT-i 1MZs. The new design has a smooth merge since the rear bank now turns to follow the front bank. It not only helped with power, but also emissions.

[te51levin]

Originally Posted by Jason.MZW20

^ But at least we have enough sense to know that when the rear bank's exhaust flow collides with the front bank's, it creates a restriction (back pressure)...

Well...we're assuming that the merge is as blunt on the inside as it looks on the outside, and we're assuming that this awkward junction is a hindrance to smooth gas flow, but we haven't tested it. While I think it is likely that there are gains to be had by redesigning that merge, I have learned never to make authoritative statements until I can really stand behind them. In this case, that means not damning the merge until I've seen it compared, using instrumented testing, with no other variables. I'm just not prepared to look at a photo on the internet and assign a horsepower loss based on that photo, that's all.

Now, that said, would I design the merge that way myself? Hell no! I'd love to design and test a few good headers on that engine, play around with tube lengths until it got really happy, mess with different systems to tune the sound, etc.

I'm definitely no Camry fanboy - I'm just not really eager to go around telling everyone that Toyota's engineers don't know what they're doing...!

[JimKing]

Toyota engineers designing exhausts for Camrys are concern with
1) Manufacturing cost / reliability
2) Emissions
3) Noise
4) Power

In that order... So yeah, they know what they're doing. But their priorities are not the same as ours.

[te51levin]

Agreed.

Conor, produce the data before we all chew our own arms off in anticipation!

[Jason.MZW20]

Originally Posted by te51levin

Well...we're assuming that the merge is as blunt on the inside as it looks on the outside, and we're assuming that this awkward junction is a hindrance to smooth gas flow, but we haven't tested it.

It's not really an assumption because it is just how it looks. The design is solely to keep the pipes equal length and easy (cheap) to manufacture in large quantities for a mass produced vehicle. And Toyota knew it was a hinderance, otherwise they would not have done this (2000+ Avalon/ES):



Now the front and rear bank's gas flow runs parallel until the flange. Why do you suppose they did that? I'd say it was for emissions more than power.

Originally Posted by JimKing

Toyota engineers designing exhausts for Camrys are concern with
1) Manufacturing cost / reliability
2) Emissions
3) Noise
4) Power

In that order... So yeah, they know what they're doing. But their priorities are not the same as ours.

Yep, and that extra bit of piping that they used to smooth the rear bank's flow on the Avalon and ES300 cost millions.

[Levi_]

Originally Posted by te51levin

Working in a muffler shop does not make one an engineer, just as drinking milk does not make you a dairy farmer. Cutting pipes and welding mufflers onto cars does not make those guys any more qualified than anyone else to make a visual assessment of how much power that design is hiding. Most of us are equally unqualified, really, and that's why there are dynos. I am looking forward to the official results of the new Y-pipe.

I concur, I've been trying find a good exhaust shop around me and this last one failed.

I looked at the exhaust on toyodiy.com and the 2001 avalon/es300 looks like the exact same.

I found the 01-03 1mz highlander's Y-pipe and it looks like this:


which is pretty much what Conor's aftermarket Y-pipe does.

And the highlander 1mz is rated 220 hp and the 1mz in the same year (2001) in the camry is rated at 210 hp. Both have vvti and in my research are otherwise exactly identical. To have toyota increase the stated horsepower must mean there is a real gain. 10 crank hp isn't bad but I'd be surprised if it isn't more.

[te51levin]

Originally Posted by Levi_

To have toyota increase the stated horsepower must mean there is a real gain.

I am not 100% confident in this. Manufacturers sometimes play around with rated numbers for marketing reasons. I suspect Toyota is more honest than most, but still, I am not ready to extrapolate a real-world 10-horsepower difference from a downpipe alone. Even if I take off my cynical hat and set marketing aside, there might be differences in the ECU tune, intake tract, muffler, etc.

Still fun to look at parts and try to determine what they were thinking when they designed them..

[U-235]

Originally Posted by te51levin

Still fun to look at parts and try to determine what they were thinking when they designed them..

Or what they weren't thinking. Defense contractors are notorious for that.

[conor]

Originally Posted by te51levin

Agreed.

Conor, produce the data before we all chew our own arms off in anticipation!

I will when I can afford to. Working on buying a house right now, so blowing a few bucks at the exhaust shop and then on another dyno trip isn't quite in the budget...

Then again.. Hrm...

Originally Posted by JimKing

3) Noise

I'm convinced that this is probably the primary reason for the design. My car is stupid quiet until I really load up the engine.. and even then all the noise is resonating from my open-element intake! If I had a stock airbox on there, I'll bet it would stay pretty quiet all the way to redline.