Least invasive v6 swap for the aw11?
Well, I've reached a point in my life where it's actually plausible to drop a v6 in my mr2 this spring.
What I've got to do is figure out which one! Torque is what gets me off, so any v6 should do better than the 4age I've got.
My biggest concern is I'd like to leave the trunk intact- Many swaps I see people cutting into it for space- that's a nono for me, I use that trunk!
Also, if wiring harness adapters are available (Or even just the plugs with pigtails for a DIY inside this winter, while its too cold to be outside) that would give big points to a certain engine- saved time is saved money, which means more money I can spend on fuel!
Since I figure I'll be needing whatever transmission comes with it, an LSD would also be a big plus- I fully intend on driving her in the snow (as I do now) and this one wheel drive crap is obnoxious; I figure it will only get worse with more torque.
I think you will have to cut into your trunk with any V6 you go with. Once you are done installing, weld in some metal to create the trunk wall. You will loose some space, but still have a trunk. On these cars, it's hard to get the cake and eat it too.
Well, I guess if it needs to happen that's how it goes.
What about wire harness adapters? Do any exist? Is there an engine/transmission combo that drops into a mk1 with less of a headache? I've seen that there are basically 2 or 3 that most people stick with, but if one happens to come out of a car that I could also nab, say, the drive axles from that would save time and money. Or if my current drive axels happen to be compatible with a certain one, that's also handy.
lots of MKI guys are using toyota v6 engines without cutting into the trunk. some have done a little massaging to the front firewall though. hit up mr220v for a wiring harness. he'll make it all plug-n-play for the aw11.
Beams Owners Group
I put a beams 3sge in my mk1. It's a lot less cramped than the v6's. Still 200hp and pretty cheap.
Toyota AR engines are an even better fit than the beams. 2.5 or 2.7L. Those will be expensive for a while to come though.
I did a harness for a 1mz mk1 a while back. It worked out very well.
Ah, thanks for the encouragement!
sounds like the 1mzfe is the one to start looking into.
Yeah, many guys just cut the trunk for access to the rear bank's spark plugs. Otherwise, you have to remove the upper intake manifold, EGR/pipes, etc.
On the MKII, you can get to the rear bank's plugs without removing the upper intake manifold. It's a little tight, but it works if you just feel around a bit; there's also just enough room for a 3/8" ratchet and extension. For the MKI, it'd be impossible without removing the manifold.
If you don't have smog to worry about and have the budget, why not go for a 2GR? Otherwise, the 1MZ is a good option. Pretty lightweight and has more than enough torque for the MKI. It's borderline in the MKII, but still fun.
Never heard of the 2gr. Definitely don't have smog to worry about here, but the budget can be tight- first I need to get a reliable DD so I can take the mr2 off the road.
Looking up the 2gr, it looks like a beast. Can it be shoehorned into an aw11 without screwing up the balance? I'd think the rear firewall would need to be completely buggered for that.
Well I've done a little reading on the 2grfe swaps- all I can find is woodsport doing the work.
I'd like to think I can do just about anything- but I'm afraid I just can't keep up with that guy. I don't even have a workshop!
I guess that leads me back to the 1mz-fe swap. The biggest thing that turned me off to the 2gr wasn't the daunting task of wiring it up, shoehorning it in, plumbing it, or fabricating mounts to hold that best- but it is that I don't want to lose my stock rims- which means sticking with the 4x100 bolt pattern.
You would have to have custom axles made with the outer stubs matching your hubs and the inner stubs matching the transmission. There are other issues to tackle too, like the CAN interface and getting gauges to work.
Originally Posted by como
It's a lot of work getting into a MKI though. The 1MZ should be fine. You can always supercharge it if you get bored.
Don't talk it, do it.
So far we are the only ones in the world to have built a 2gr-fe Mk1, we've done two of them. All i can say is that it's a VERY involved conversion, the front firewall needs altering to make space for the alternator, the rear crossmember needs modifying for header clearance and the trunk wall needs a large access panel making to clear the rear head and also for spark plug access.
On top of that it will need reinforcing on the front and rear crossmembers where the torque mounts bolt on, otherwise the chassis WILL tear after a few months of hard launches. You will need to convert your rear hubs to Mk2 turbo spline, Mk1 spline just won't cut it and it will shear a CV joint in no time.
It won't need a CAN interface to get the gauges working, just a little retro fitting of oil pressure and coolant sensors. The tacho can be made to work by bypassing the ballast resistor on the Mk1 tacho board and fitting a pot for calibration to another resistor, pretty simple stuff.
Wiring is a biggy, but i've written a few guides that should help.
Budget for suspension and brake upgrades, and a Mk2T LSD trans is a MUST.
A 2gr Mk1 build is not for the feint hearted, but creates the most awesome Mr2 you will ever drive. My advice is to fit a 1mz though, far less complicated and ultimately a more sensible option, in fact it's my favourite Mr2 engine conversion type with no upset to the handling at all.
Hope that helps, if you need anything specific just ask.
Thanks Paul, that's the last bit of encouragement I needed to say "maybe next time"- but for now it'll have to be a 1mz.
another year has passed. The mr2 still runs, but she's getting tired. the engine is covered in oil from an unidentified leak (I suspect camshaft seal) and the starter sticks in the cold- running the engine at some 400rpm for up to 15 seconds on a cold start.
I fear the low rpm starts has lead to bearing wear, but cant check without taking her apart.
Anyway, the quest is back on for the right swap for me!
I'm still pretty much stuck on v6- another i4 just wouldnt be silly enough for me.
What I really want is some low end torque, but it just keeps going through my mind... are there any v6's that happen to use the same transmission the 4age does? I just happen to have all the parts to fully rebuild one on hand, and a few spares... I'd hate to waste that.
That C series transmission will be demolished by any of the V6s. You have to use an E or S series transmission. Lucky for you, the S series transmissions share the same differential as the C series, so the inner axle stubs will probably work.
Originally Posted by como
The 4AGZE's E51 is similar to the 2VZ's E52 and 3VZ's E53, in design, anyway. Gearing changes were made, of course. The 3VZ's E53 has double and triple cone synchros like the 93+ E153.
After a few months of poking around, I managed to find a copy of a web page I thought was long gone on the internet archive.
I read this years back, and it was my inspiration for wanting a v6 in the first place.
As the years have passed, the 1mzfe has come down in price- and there is someone selling one locally (asking 650) with 79k on it, so that's where I'd like to start looking.
I did some searching around on the forums, but it seems there is not much information in the way of this swap.
My understanding from the article is that a transmission from a mk2 should bolt on (mostly) to the 1mzfe. I'd like some clarification on that before I start buying parts
My other concern is axle shaft sizes. The link is a bit fuzzy, and I'm not so sure how related it is to the 1mzfe;
it looks like the transmission (mr2) has a shaft that goes from the transmission to a bearing carrier further away from the output- presumably to make the two half-axles similar in length?
It sounds like he had to jam a different one in there, and then lucked out on having proper axles.
I guess my question here is this:
is there a known set of halfaxles for this swap, or should I go into this thinking I'll be needing custom ones?
One more question, not so related-
1mzfe, 68k, $650. Just the engine. is it worth it, or should I look for a junk car so I can get wiring/ecu/other bits?
TOYOTA,SIENNA,AVALON,CAMRY,LEXUS ES 300 V6 ENGINE 98-01
That is a good price if you choose to NOT tear it open.
Originally Posted by como
Just leave it alone and source wiring harness, Ecu, alternator for V6.
you may end up spending a good bit, but some junkyards will cut you a deal if you pick up a whole bunch.
Take it from someone with the swap fresh on their mind since I'm right in the process. The 1mz Isnt the cheapest option (3vz)
There is plus points Lighter, newer, a bit more powerful.
The draw back is more electrical ultimately. and its more knock prone, but
Most wont run forced induction regardless. ( i wont for awhile)
If you choose to rebuild, Its not Way insane pricey, cause its a camry motor.
If you want better headers, maybe a better intake. Exhaust will have to be custom, and there isnt a premade one you can just pick up yet.
(unless its a part out from a completed swap)
Also I have a big advantage. Mine is going in a mk2. Not mk1.
so The s series trans is available and does work.
No custom axles, and hubs.
Fuel lines need a bit of modding,coolant lines as well I've cut out power steering and ac. Probably will lose cruise to
I'm sure you've done the reasearch
And I am not patronizing you.
I dont know you, I dont know how mechanically inclined you are.
Research and facts pale in comparison to the to hands on activity.
I'm 4 months in a rebuild, I work 50 hours a week and off sunday and tuesdays.
I'm down to timing, fuel rail and vaccum hoses. then it'll be ready for the swap. Even with my research I didnt expect the hassle.
and i dont even have the 5sfe dropped
Worst part some say I'm moving fast.. (yeah right) lol.
I bought a whole car for 700 dollars with a running 1mz.. but... it has 211,000 miles. So rebuild was a little necessary.
Over all, after 200k the block was exceptionally clean.
But I tried to do it right. After it goes in the Mk2 i dont feel like pulling it back out LOL
Thanks for the insight. It looks like if I'm careful on ebay, I can get an ECU and harness for about $150, making this an $800 engine, then I just need a transmission, axles, and a bunch of time/misc parts.
Originally Posted by ToyotaFan13
A bonus from the mk1- I dont have power steering anyway, so I'm not losing anything by chopping that out.
I DO plan to get the AC working, although it's never worked since I've had the car- the AC system will need a complete overhaul. Fortunately I have access to the proper tools for that.
Custom fuel, coolant, and oil lines/systems won't be a problem, it's nothing I've not dealt with before.
My biggest worry is still, of course, transmission and axle compatibility.
From what I've read if you use the S54 SW20 transmission you can just use the same axles from the SW20 S54 and they will bolt up as they don't use an intermediate shaft.
The E153 intermediate shaft when bolted onto the V6 engine is a bit off. I think it's the position of the carrier itself along the shaft. It needs to be spaced (I've read anywhere from 3mm to 1/4") towards the hub. So most people put a small spacer on one side of the bearing and have a new clip groove machined into the intermediate shaft. Sounds pretty simple to me.
S54 has very, very short gears and a lot of guys using the E153 complain about having short gears there too. Personally I like having shorter gears so I'll be going with the S54. Most likely I'll rebuild it with a MK3 LSD and a taller 5th gear for highway cruising.
The S54's gears are too short, IMO.
It'd be better to go the other way around and use the S51 with the S54's 1st gear (input shaft + driven gear) and differential pinion (whole output shaft).
It'd get you this:
That's as close to pure perfect sport gearing on the 1MZ (although 2nd needs to be a bit longer and 3rd a bit shorter) with the S series as you're going to get. The S54 is made for torque deprived 4-cylinders that have revs to make up for it (3SGE mainly; the 1MZ dies out after 5500rpm, just like the 5SFE).
Here's what the S54 looks like with a longer 5th:
S54 w/ 0.731 5th
Gearing between 4th and 5th will lose you a few tenths of a second, maybe more.
Here's the Custom geared S51
Much better spacing between the gears, and definitely better suited to the 1MZ. The 6% longer 3.944 differential ratio isn't too bad either, as it keeps the engine relatively quiet until you floor it.
Last edited by Jason.MZW20; 06-29-2012 at 08:52 PM.